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I’m trying to pull together a coherent story of my father’s time as a soldier for a family genealogy, but one terminology has me puzzled.
An early entry when he was a Lance Sergeant was:
“Appointed Paid vice Wilkins to army Physical Training staff’
I assume this means a temporary training appointment where he was strictly speaking supernumerary to the PTI group. However maybe I have totally misunderstood what a vice Wilkins does!
Can anyone enlighten me?
The use of vice in this context means “serving in the place of, or as a deputy for”
Never trust an atom - they make up everything !
As he had the rank of L/Sgt, I assume your father was in the Guards Ed. That would be Foot Guards, as opposed to Household Cavalry, but could have been The Honourable Artillery Company. If the ranks are still as applicable as they were when I left HMF in 1976, those were the only remaining bodies which still used that rank, although I would have to research other regiments from your father’s time, to be certain it was the case then.
“Vice” does indeed mean that he was serving as a replacement, possibly temporarily, for another PTI. Your dad must have been a very fit soldier, probably noticed in his own Regiment for some athletic activity. Very few soldiers outside the Army Physical Training Corps are asked to fill a position within the APTC. Having been an Army athlete myself, I know how hard it is to be placed within an APTC post (even temporarily) if you are not a serving APTC soldier. I never wanted to be in the APTC, as I enjoyed my time and work in the AAC, but I was fit enough and knew many people from the APTC school at Blandford Forum. The APTC is a very small body in terms of numbers, but I recall my main PTI with respect and admiration: a man who rewarded effort with a rare compliment, gave great encouragement and motivation, but detested lack of effort. At 35+, he could still manage a mile in a little over 4 minutes.
Your pride in your father is enhanced, I hope.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.He was actually in The Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry – one of the ‘double-time’ marching regiments so I would imagine he was in a regiment that emphasised fitness from the time of enlistment.
Now that question has been answered perhaps someone can answer another.
In the cadets we had to regularly carry out an exercise to assess whether a distant point could be viewed or was blocked by the intervening terrain.
This was accomplished by plotting a graph of the contours from a straight line joining the points on an OS map.
The exercise had a name which I cant remember & was taken from a khaki instruction booklet .--
Regards
wasbitRig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440PDear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway
Line of Sight? Possibly finding the ‘Reverse Slope’ or ‘Military Crest’ positions.
The exercise itself is performing a topographical cross-section.
I do this myself, but with online tools, when looking at long WiFi links. I have to take into account the Fresnel zone as well but the terminology is still “line of sight”.
Line of Sight? Possibly finding the ‘Reverse Slope’ or ‘Military Crest’ positions. The exercise itself is performing a topographical cross-section.
That’s correct and the best explanation from Ed, wasbit. Spotting and then using a reverse slope to conceal forces from an enemy, is a military tactic.
Ed, your father was a L/Sgt at a time when several regiments had that rank. To the best of my recollection, the DCLI was first amalgamated with the Somersets, then all Light Infantry regiments were amalgamated into the Light Infantry as one regiment, after disbanding the Durham Light Infantry. in the mid-2000’s, the Rifles were formed from several regiments, including (IIRC) the L.I., Devon and Dorsets, Royal Green Jackets, Royal Gloucs, Berks and Wilts.
L/Sgt was and is, equivalent to a Corporal, with two stripes, but as I said before, the rank is only retained today in the Foot Guards and the Honourable Artillery Company. There have been some really unusual rank titles in the British Army, mostly wiped out in all the amalgamations and shrinkages of numbers in the Army.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.The exercise, as far as I recall, had a one word name something ….ation. As I said previously, there was a handbook but again I can’t remember if it was exclusively for this exercise.
--
Regards
wasbitRig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440PDear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway
Bob, I think that the DCLI used the Lance Sergeant position as a ‘probationary’ rank before promoting to full Sergeant, as that is what he became a year later according to his Certificate of Service.
With respect to ‘Wilkins’, I have a very vague recollection that my father said Wilkins was a Mythical Beast, and they just needed to fill in a ‘name’ for his own pay records and to ensure the APTC did not show as over staffed during that period. It all sounded like a bit of creative accounting to keep the books straight!
On line of site – sorry I cannot help with one word. The general exercise when I was a cadet was called Map Recognition, or Map Reading. It normally involved two minutes identifying which was the best bridge to blow up, then five miles tramping through the rain to inspect the installation. I suspect we were all being trained as Cold War cannon fodder.
I’ve never the rank of Lance Sgt before. Interesting.
In regards to the ‘line of site’ question, the exersice was named ‘observation and evaluation’ as far as I can remember. Basically figering out how to judge distances and discribe a position.
Ie, 600meter to our 11 clock, 2 figures left of the 3rd tegrath pole. Then some one could plot it on to an os map. You’d either call a fire team Stike or open up on it etc…
Yes it was Map Reading for my generation of Khaki too, but we began using “observation and evaluation” as Steve has it, just before I left*. In fact Map Reading was an exam that was a subject in Classes 3 to 1 of the ACE (Army Certificate of Education). There were several other possible subjects including English and Maths (which were compulsory), but the ACE was changed in (IIRC) 1970 or ’71, to the Education Promotion Certificate, and was a lower standard due to declining literacy and numeracy in recruits. I passed ACE1 almost straight after joining, but the pay did not catch up for over a year. However the back pay gave me a very good Leave of 3 great weeks! The original ACE 1 was recognised as a GCE equivalent.
That was at the time when the Army actually had Pay Parades, when we lined up alphabetically to receive an actual pay packet, by marching to a table when your name was called, saluting, receiving the packet, announcing “Thank you Sir!”, executing a perfect Right About and marching off. The alphabet was reversed at every Pay Parade, which was great for blokes like myself and my mate Johnny Zamorski, lol! Absolute BS. That changed to once a fortnight, then to being paid into a bank account. I remember that an Army Bedford RL carrying a great amount of cash for pay, was attacked by some unfortunate hijackers in Southern England once. The back flew open and out jumped half a dozen Khaki Heavies with pickaxe handles, proceeding to lay about them with malice aforethought. Ambulances had to be called to the would-be hijackers and serious injuries were inflicted. It was a different time, with different ways of dealing with miscreants…
*I spent my last 11 months in the wonderful summer of 1976, working with a retired Major in command of a civilian Transport Group, so was not involved in any real military stuff at that time. I drove all over the UK in either a Bedford RL or a LWB Landrover with trailer, delivering exercise equipment, blank ammo and pyrotechnics to various camps and Exercise areas. The best time I ever had: my own boss, no military clothing, was never bothered by anyone, as all officers and NCO’s believed I was civilian. I tried to see how far I could go, wearing a very loud Hawaiian shirt, cut down Levis shorts, boots and an old Far East ‘jungly’ Bush hat. It was bliss to an anti-authoritarian rebel such as myself! Had to change away from barracks of course. Ate in a Civvy
Messrestaurant, lived in a bungalow with two more idiots.When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.Bob, your story of the pay raid reminded me of an event back in the mid nineteen sixties. Just before lunch we heard a load of sirens and bells. Everyone looked up and I rashly said, ‘Oh don’t worry its just the payroll.’
On return from lunch I had a hand written note on my desk.
‘10% of the payroll as hush money, please. Used notes will be OK’
The pay packets for most GPO staff in North West London had been snatched, oops.
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