No products in the basket.
- This topic has 1,833 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
They can trade all round the world easily as the contreies probably already have deals with the EU as 3rd party members. Them deals end the day we leave the EU. Then the paper work really starts.
And as I said above, it’s not ad simple as signing a new deal, as the EU will be part of the negotiation team for that 3rd party country. Or at least the EU will have a huge say in it. They won’t let a 3rd parts they have a deal with, sign a more favourable deal with a 4th party. Its basic business.
For a while the MPs was Saying we will just carry on with the same terms as before, even if the EU let us, which they might, the trade deals in place, are set up to protect all nations of the EU, like protection for Spanish oranges, Italian olivs etc, so we would still be doing business on someone else’s terms.
There is a mountain of reasons, that it’s dumb. Monetary wise it maze zero sense. I’m yet to hear a better solution to what we have.
We and all our off springs will pay for this. If we leave, there will be a huge brain drain to the uk. If we are lucky in 20 years, we will be making shit for China. And the pound will be worth a tenth it is today.
But we’ll have our soveranty…. ?
” We and all our off springs will pay for this. If we leave, there will be a huge brain drain to the uk. If we are lucky in 20 years, we will be making shit for China. And the pound will be worth a tenth it is today.
But we’ll have our soveranty…. ”
Totally agree, what I have been saying forever on this Topic. (seems like forever, anyway!) Our kids and their kids will suffer, on into who knows how many generations. All because of misguided patriotism and looking back at what we were, instead of looking to what we could have been. No one hates Brussels Bureaucracy more than me, but this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We are in for a long hard road and will be at the mercy of whoever wants to take advantage of our desperate search for Trade Agreements. Bearing in mind the vague promises given by some nations and taking into account the number of companies that were once British and are now huge multinational combines, what are our chances?
Sovereignty means nothing to me anyway, I am a Republican and would like to see all the Royals gone, the principle of Inherited Position and Wealth gone with them. Parasites, all of them.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.The folk that say the want sovereignty are not meaning it in its literal term, they seem to think atm we can’t make are own rules, and think we don’t have a say in what new EU rules are made.
Non seem to realises, we are the EU. It’s not a 3rd party. Or hasn’t been for 40 years.
Tbh I don’t know why they want, as I’m yet to hear a saine (to me) reason to leave that trumps the overall value of staying.
I’m no EU fan either. But I’m a me and my kids fan. For me personally and the majority of the nation, we will be worse off out than in. So I’m an in.
Now if the EU was say Saudi Arabia, I’d want to be out on principle, and sod the losses. But the EU is no Saudi or Qatar. Its just liek us, but a bit sunnier.
If we leave, and Thr Union breaks down, in tan years time we could be fighting for land. (ww3) Style.
Maybe this is what both America and Russia wants. Maybe now the EU is seen as a theat to either or both nations? Pure speculation and my thinking patterns.
Just wait till no one csn afford thier mortgages, house prices will plimit, and good old cash buyers will hoover up. Is that why oaps are into brexit, as they are the only cash buyers. Though maybe to long of a long game for them. More like the top few percent will hoover up what little the don’t yet own.
I give up.
On a side note, but just as depressing, me and my mate was talking about the best way to die. we decided on a metior hit. one big one. Just go to bed with the kids, but on a film and gone. I suppose I could stretch that to a nuke, but I’d want it to be a direct hit on me, no 20 miles away shit.
Isn’t talking brexit uplifting.
If we accept May’s deal or Remain in the EU we are at the mercy of the EU which will cherry pick this country dry. Why would they not do so in their own best interests? Plainly we either could never leave (i.e. May’s Deal) or would never leave (i.e. we Remained) no matter what they did. Tell me, if we chose to Remain what would be the terms of that? There’s no guarantee they would be as now. The chances are we’d be forced either immediately or soon after into the Euro and be in a position like either Greece or Italy. Why would the EU not do that? They would see Sterling joining as a big boost to their weakened currency and a cosh to beat Italy with. As everyone says the EU is doing only what’s in its own best interests, which patently are not always in our best interests in or out of membership.
So tell me lads what does Remain actually mean? Truly lads post what Remain means or would be. Then we can look back after things have panned out. To me its a far greater and more dangerous unknown than simply trading with the EU on the same terms that we currently deal with most of the world including the USA by far our biggest single state trading partner.
As for us becoming a cheap labour house economy if we were outside the EU the reverse is surely true. Remember with May’s deal or Remaining, the EU could take the best of the UK talents and resources for their own because we would have proved we would never leave. We have demonstrated ourselves to be the weakest willed of the 28.
I say again before saying that Remaining is best, please tell me what the Remain terms would be. It seems to me that if we bottle out of leaving absolutely then the EU could make the Remain terms whatever they want – No veto, No rebates and perhaps even Euro membership. “Battered wife, too frightened to leave because doing so would be uncomfortable in the short term”, here we come, remaining for batterings. How can anyone with any experience of life not see that? I find it staggering that so many cannot. We had no real say in Europe when we were fully in but now we would have even less say. Still if folks want a battered future UK for their offspring (and it seems those offspring in general have not enough experience of life to recognise for themselves that May’s deal or remaining would be) then so be it. All I ask is that folks on here stand back, remember their experience of life and look at Macron’s threats re the backstop and fishing then tell me I am wrong.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
If we accept May’s deal or Remain in the EU we are at the mercy of the EU which will cherry pick this country dry. Why would they not do so in their own best interests?
That statement is either disingenuous or fatuous.
If we remain in the EU then like any other EU member we can and should contribute to its governance. Instead of stacking the UK’s membership with Bexiteer saboteurs we should be electing people with the interests of the UK at heart. (Most of the South East UK MEPs are avowed ‘leavers’ belonging to the so-called freedom party.)
The EU is committed to increasing the GDP of the member states and contributions to the EU budget are based on national GNP. There is absolutely no incentive for the EU as a body to reduce the wealth of any member state.
There’s no point Ed, he clearly believes all the tripe peddled by the extreme Brexiteer end. Talk about Project Fear! It really is on a par with reds under the bed. It’s more stories to frighten the children, except in this case it isn’t the children they are quite happy with things as they are.
We have clearly thrived in the last 40 years in the EU, and yes I do remember what it was like before, the sick man of Europe. I cannot see why we wouldn’t continue to thrive if we remained. Quite frankly I couldn’t care less about things like a European Army, it makes perfect sense to me.
If we leave I think we are more likely to become the 51st state. Trump will have us by the short and curlies because we will desperate enough to let him. India want to push their dodgy Pharma on the world, that’s why their trade negotiations keep on failing with the EU and US. As for China we’ll be looking to them for investment to replace what will be lost. We barely own any of our infrastructure or manufacturing as it is.
The Commonwealth countries are more interested in regional integration because that makes sense. Why transport goods half way around the world that we / they can get regionally? That only makes sense in the Brexiteer fantasy land and again plays to a certain audience, but there is no Colonial Office to dictate terms any more. Best keep quiet that a deal with New Zealand would destroy the Welsh lamb industry which would already be facing a 12% tariff on the 90% plus of it’s output which goes to the EU. But that’s OK because they can all become fishermen, or pick the vegetables and fruit on English farms that they can’t grow on their own.
The EU is committed to increasing the GDP of the member states and contributions to the EU budget are based on national GNP. There is absolutely no incentive for the EU as a body to reduce the wealth of any member state.
The statement while true EU wide is non sequitur at individual state level. Redistribution of wealth is incentivised by the EU’s design and would suit the EU quite nicely. The EU’s income would change not one iota. We would pay less contributions but the smaller states pay more.
We are a richer state than most states in the EU. Redistribute our wealth and you would have one less than happy state (i.e. us) and several smaller very happy states.
It benefits the EU politically to do such. Because Degressive Proportionality, the way in which MEP seats are allocated per state, leaves no question re such. Smaller EU states, population-wise, get more seats than larger states. The shift of wealth to smaller states therefore increases the percentage of MEPs who are happy and hence pro-EU. So there is always a strong incentive to redistribute wealth. Every move of business from us to a poorer state is always in the EU’s best interests whether we are in the EU or out of it.
So tell me again, Ed and Dave, what does Remain actually mean, what would be the terms? By the way, no-one ever told me the above I worked it out for myself from the facts of the way the EU is designed and structured. Its not rocket science.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
Until we actually leave it was made clear that we are still in the EU under the same benefits and obligations as before.
I don’t know, they may want our first born to work in the salt mines or something. Speculate all you like, but don’t forget everything that supports your view is sunny uplands and everything that doesn’t is some ritual punishment or another. Throw in vassal state every now and again just to be sure we get the message.
I have had enough of this populist, jingoist, crap and lies, because that is what it is. I have had enough of politicians on all sides using it as an excuse to get what they want under the guise of it being what the country voted for or what’s in the best interest of the country. What is saddest of all is that the areas that voted heavily for leave will be the most heaviest hit by any down turn and even Gove is now being honest and saying there will be.
Brexit Fact vs Fear https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=UYonSZ8s3_o
Yes, Dave, all the areas that voted heavily for leave will be the most heaviest hit. All those areas full of people too stupid to know what they were voting for………………………… I wouldn’t say that in a North East Pub if I were you, matey. They are sick and tired of being told they are stupid by Remainers and I don’t think you even know how furious they are.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
The EU won’t and can’t ‘cherry pick’ if we say in, life will just continue ad normal under the same terms as always.
Now if we leave, they will cherry pick all our best and brightest. Adding more to our downward spiral that had already started.
Atm we are the EU. It isn’t an ‘us or them’, it’s an ‘us an a we’. The EU is not seperate to us, not yet. And hopefully not anytime soon.
A very circualt argument that is gong absolutely nowhere. Let’s keep it clean and no personal insults. Opinions are fine, let’s keep it that way.
It’s not like any of our opinions are taken into account anyway. We may ad well all be pissing into the wind.so not forth falling out over.
With May’s proposal does anyone think that anyone from either side would be happy? For me i think both leave and remain are getting shafted. And I can only see that the EU nagotiators agreed to it, ad they know its dead in Parliament.
Well get an extention when it falls through, she will call a GE, the next gov will win on the EU issue (basically a glorified ref) and if a remainer wins we stay, and if a leaver wins well bomb out of the EU.
Either way, if we get a second vote, which thus would be, I’d stand with the Victor as by now everyone who is bothered about the issue, will now know all the ons and outs and where they stand. So if we still vote leave so be it. But just do it. Rip that plaster off,
get it over with. Frakly I’m bored. We all now know where we stand.
Bob I’ve noticed, you started ramain, then wavered to just do it, and now you seem back to remain again.
Did I call them stupid? No I did not and I never have. That is just another example of what is happening, words being put into other peoples mouths. Everyone that voted the same way you did wants exactly what you want etc. etc. Trying to pit the south vs the north, urban “elites” vs good old country folk. London vs the rest. Try and pigeon hole someone and then attack that pigeon hole, don’t actually worry about whether it’s true or not.
I think it just shows how poor the justification for Brexit is. When anything negative is pointed out divert attention, go on the attack in some other area. Speculate wildly on subjects you know no-one can actually predict with 100% accuracy, after all your outcome is possible in theory.
No-one can accurately predict the future in the same way no-one can accurately predict next weeks football results. However those that know more about football will do better than me, especially when it comes to wins or loses vs 100% accuracy on goals scored. I don’t call them out as knowing nothing just because they can’t predict everything, especially for my favourite team.
Steve you are right, I did waver a bit, mostly because I felt like most of the British people were: sick to the back teeth of the whole issue and just want it over. But I am firmly in the Remain camp again, mostly still thinking about the future of our kids and their descendants. I am even more fed up now, but I will not stoop to insults against those who believe something opposite to my views.
I think we need to see May gone, a vote of no confidence and a GE, followed by another Referendum. That Ref. should be set out as a multi- box question, answer all or any you wish:
1 – Do you wish the UK to remain as a full member of the EU?
2 – Would you prefer the UK to remain within the EU, as an Associate Member?
3 – Do you wish the UK to leave the EU, as full or Associate Member, within the current time frame proposed by the Agreement between the UK and the EU?
4 – Do you wish the UK to leave all membership of the EU immediately?
5 – If you prefer Option 4, do you wish that the UK pays no money to the EU as a prerequisite of leaving?
Lots of you will have other Options, or want to change my Options. Feel free, knock yourselves out, put up alternatives, let’s have a bit of fun added to this moribund Topic!
I entirely agree with Dave‘s last post here: there is far too much disunity and division in the country atm.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.Dave yir first paragraph about pigeon holing prople is stsidghtvout of Hillery Clinton paly book. She try to make it look like everyone has a place in America, so everyone get there own special name.
All that’s happinging in reality is excellated devisons. Spilt everyine up then it takes one match to set them all against each other.
It’s one thing I’ve never understood about Americans. You have to be a Ln African American, Italian American, Latino American etc… Now we add gays, lesbians, transgender, (and the many new flavours of the same theme). Even each pigeon hole is forther segregated. How can any of this end well, its the oppersite to uniting people. Your actually drawing battle lines
Trump played her back at her own game, went after a few good sections (the non Americans that was illegal) the actual legal immegrants like thisvand so did middle americal
Also given Americans in general hate california and it’s uber liberal pc ways, he could point to that and say “is that what you want” .
I class my self as Liberal, or did untill Liberal passed my by. Liberal is more militant Liberal now. I much prefer a bit of friendly socialism, and a cick of communism if no ones listening. They’d love em in America.
Old school social comnumist. I just need to change my gender and sexuality , and I’d be classed as the centre.
The world has gone made. Its all starting to unravel, and gathering pace. I don’t really see a good ‘out’, I can see see some proper wars by 2030.
“Also given Americans in general hate california and it’s uber liberal pc ways, he could point to that and say “is that what you want” .””
Americans also hate Texans. There were a couple of Texan children at my younger son’s school in New England and they were given a MUCH harder time than the Limeys.
Americans are still fighting the Civil War.
Did I call them stupid? No I did not and I never have. That is just another example of what is happening, words being put into other peoples mouths. Everyone that voted the same way you did wants exactly what you want etc. etc. Trying to pit the south vs the north, urban “elites” vs good old country folk. London vs the rest. Try and pigeon hole someone and then attack that pigeon hole, don’t actually worry about whether it’s true or not. I think it just shows how poor the justification for Brexit is. When anything negative is pointed out divert attention, go on the attack in some other area. Speculate wildly on subjects you know no-one can actually predict with 100% accuracy, after all your outcome is possible in theory. No-one can accurately predict the future in the same way no-one can accurately predict next weeks football results. However those that know more about football will do better than me, especially when it comes to wins or loses vs 100% accuracy on goals scored. I don’t call them out as knowing nothing just because they can’t predict everything, especially for my favourite team.
Do you truly not see it that you are calling them out as knowing nothing? When you say they will be hit hardest you are obviously saying your vision of the future is correct and there’s is not. You’re saying that you can predict and they cannot or you can tell which expert predictions are correct and they cannot.
My background is in sales, marketing and business development. One of the golden rules is never knock an opposition’s product that a client is currently using because in doing so you insult that client’s ability to make good decisions. That is exactly what you have done here. In saying they’ll be hit hardest you are saying “You made the wrong decision, you don’t know how to chose correctly and I do.” Of course its an insult. Dave, I fully accept that such was not your intent but intended or not such was unquestionably the effect of your words.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
You are shaming the exacting same thing (in reverse) though.
Also shifting questions is very annoying.
Shifting questions is just a cheap politician’s ploy when faced with irrefutable evidence. I dislike it too, but it means the main point has got through and been accepted. Only third parties are misled by such cheap tricks.
However perhaps it would be better if the focus had been on all the lies and distortions told by BoJo et al, and the impact they will mainly have on their supporters. May is carrying on this tradition by saying ‘We will have control of our borders’. A total distortion given that the border between Eire and Ulster that will be completely open to all EU citizens.
Your interpretation of my statement is your interpretation of my statement. It is your spin to twist things in your own direction and assign to me a view that I don’t hold. It then of course follows that you can attach other things to that statement, like saying I’m insulting people that I am not. This is exactly the same thing as the words we keep hearing, what the people voted for was my version of Brexit and therefore the will of the people.
So, how will leaving the EU specifically improve the lot of the people in say Cornwall, how long will it take and will they have to suffer any extra pain on the way? Will it make up for the loss of poverty-related grants from the European Social Fund?
BTW I don’t think the Cornish Leavers actually care much, for their own reasons they just want out. That is why it’s ironic that they are likely to suffer more than say London and the South East. It doesn’t imply that they don’t know what they were voting for and I have had many a discussion in the local pub about it (Ring O Bells, St Issey). They don’t feel I’m insulting them or accusing them of being thick yokels from my position as a liberal urban elite from the big city (Bristol). Those sorts of words are only used by a certain group of people.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
