Brexit now = CETA +/-?

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This topic contains 1,636 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by The VFM Addict 1 hour, 28 minutes ago.

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  • #22765

    Ed P
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    @edps

    I must confess to being totally uncertain why the UK has been pratting about for the last 12 months. By all accounts when ‘submarine’ May at last emerged all she did was to unveil a slight modification of the Canadian deal(CETA) with the EU.

    The +/- comes about as there will still be free movement of EU citizens across the borderless Ulster/Eire border, albeit with no rights of abode, but that never troubles the people smugglers. There is also uncertainty over our biggest export earner – the Financial Sector. The EU court will arbitrate all trade deals and the Court of Human Misrights will remain unchanged. (This was never part of Brexit and cannot be untangled from the Northern Ireland Friday Agreement).

    It strikes me that the last six months has been all about internal rifts in the Conservative Party and banging blimp heads together.

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  • #29280

    The VFM Addict
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    @thevfmaddict
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    The Hard Brexit Petition continues to steam along and Louth and Horncastle retain the lead.  Boy oh boy do they seem to want a Hard Brexit more than any other area.    There is no question that the map by constituency also allows MP’s a useful live tool for checking the strength of feeling in their own constituency over and during the Christmas recess and January debate.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29283

    The VFM Addict
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    @Ed

    Yesterday you were saying you don’t begrudge Jean-Claude Drunker his 32,700 (tax free) Euros a month.   Just read this and the most of comments and tell me again you don’t think he and the EU bureaucrats take us for a ride.   We (i.e. Cameron) tried to stop this drunk getting elected but to no avail.  It shows how little say we really had in the EU doesn’t it?    Is this what you want for your off spring to be ruled by folks like this?    Do you think that any average citizen in the EU wants someone like this in his position?    The EU is not for the people of Europe its for the political classes.   That’s the reality.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29286

    Dave Rice
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    @ricedg
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    0.69% of her constituents. Victoria Atkins must be quaking. I mean if they all voted UKIP she’s still have 10 x as many votes as UKIP. If I was a suspicious person I’d think this was a dig at one of her constituents that hangs around here.

    If you coloured that map by % of constituents from 0 to 9% they’d still all be white.

    Never mind, the total number has nearly reached that of “If England win the world cup, the Monday should be made a bank holiday for 2018”.

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    #29288

    The VFM Addict
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    I merely quoted Louth and Horncastle as it was in the lead. Fact no dig.    Your points re percentages and UKIP etc., are mute.   The figures simply show strength of feeling in general terms per constituency relative to other constituencies, nothing more.

    BTW Victoria has enough to worry about already because Louth and Horncastle was a very pro-Brexit area in the 2016 Ref and her going heavily remain is already likely to carry a heavy penalty next time.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29289

    The VFM Addict
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    To flesh out my above post Louth and Horncastle was 65% leave and in East Lindsey a staggering 70.7%

    See the Louth Leader.   So clearly Victoria Atkins was/is vastly out of step with her constituents.   The number signing the petition simply reaffirms such as being equally as true today as it was in 2016.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29292

    Dave Rice
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    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 2,139

    So you agree it does’t really show anything. I still can’t see the point in petitioning the government to debate something they’re already debating.

    If Victoria Atkins is so bad for going against the wishes of her constituents perhaps you need a word with Liam Fox, Graham Brady, Theresa Villiers, Dominic Raab, John Redwood, Chris Grayling, Crispin Blunt, Kate Hooey, David Davies, Steve Baker, Jack Lopresti (my MP and ERG member), Nigel Dods and IDS.

    They clearly don’t agree with their constituents, but perhaps it only works one way? I mean it would be hypocrisy if it didn’t, wouldn’t it?

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    #29294

    The VFM Addict
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    No I did not say that it shows nothing.  I said very clearly it loosely shows feelings in a constituency relative to other constituencies.

    Nor was I criticising Victoria Atkins.   Where did I do that?   I merely suggested that going dramatically against the opinion of her electorate she may be heavily censured at the next GE by that electorate.   There’s no hypocrisy there either because I did not suggest that the likes of Raab, IDS, Redwood etc should be immune from such.   They too should be censured by their electorate if their electorate desire to.   Tell me Dave where did I say it should only work one way?   You are plainly imagining things.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29295

    Ed P
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    @edps
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    Both the Irish and Spanish have had a second referendum over the same question. IMO a second referendum is akin to having a new general  election when you find out that the winners lied over their election manifesto promises.

    If we do finish up with the extremely damaging option of a Hard Brexit, the impact on employment, and wages will be so bad that Labour will sweep the Conservatives into third place in the 2022 election.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Ed P.
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    #29300

    Dave Rice
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    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 2,139

    Victoria Atkins can afford to be heavily censured with her majority, and so can a lot of the rest on that list.

    I’m still not sure what the thoughts of <0.5% of the electorate show about anything. If 48% can be ignored why should the tiny percentage of hard liners be listened to?

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    #29301

    The Duke
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    @sgb101
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    Of course I mind. Everyone gets a say on their opinion. We are yet to get the tories clamping down on this part of free speach.

    Just cos you don’t like the EU, should we just all forget about the majority that never wanted to leave? Are they not allowed a voice no more?

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    #29338

    Wheels-Of-Fire
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    @grahamdearsley
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    Unicorn

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    #29339

    The VFM Addict
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    @thevfmaddict
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    I knew they exist, I knew it…………LOL

    On a more practical and evidence based theme Forbes yesterday rated us as the being Best Country for Business in 2019 (despite Brexit) ahead of the USA, Hong Kong, Singapore and every EU state.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29341

    The Duke
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    @sgb101
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    I’m sure forbes don’t have an agenda. Honest.

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    #29345

    Bob Williams
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    @bullstuff2
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    Victoria Atkins can afford to be heavily censured with her majority, and so can a lot of the rest on that list. I’m still not sure what the thoughts of <0.5% of the electorate show about anything. If 48% can be ignored why should the tiny percentage of hard liners be listened to?

    That’s my MP Dave. She was absolutely taken aback to receive lots of angry correspondence, mail and electronic, after her advice to her constituents to vote Remain. The following Leave landslide shocked her I think. Since shortly after that, she has never stopped working to resolve local issues, ensuring that the media are there to record her Good Works. She has risen in the Tory ranks, was a Cameron favourite and is now a favourite of the current PM. As an ex-Barrister, she has had a hand in much government legislation. Which demonstrates her ineptitude. Given a Hard Brexit, after a collapse of government, she may either wind up as Party Leader, or tootle off back to Lancashire. Whatever the outcome, people in Louth and Horncastle, East Lyndsey, always vote Tory. Except for at least me: I look at the contenders, research them and vote for the best of the bunch as I see it. Voting for the person, not the Party.

    Your last comment is totally relevant and I agree with it entirely.

    “If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.”
    ― Philip K. Dick, legendary SF writer.

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    #29346

    The Duke
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    @sgb101
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    I never vote because of the colour of trh tie, always on which I think is the right party/person for the time.

    My area seems to be a bit 50/50 as we seem to bounce from Blue to red and back again. Or Atleast we have since I lived here.

    Liverpool is very left, though I think they fluted with the yellows for short time. But on The whole it’s anything but blue.

    Since the churchill and Maggie incedents, blue isn’t welcome. Though WC was yellow at that time. But no one rembebers that bit.

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    #29354

    Dave Rice
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    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 2,139

    The Forbes article’s author: “I cover sports business with rare dips into b-schools, local economies”.

    Nevertheless. “Zandi is less optimistic. He thinks it could take multiple generations for the $2.6 billion economy to recover from Brexit. “Under the Theresa May proposal, which is most likely, the U.K.’s global orientation is diminished. It makes investment and trade more challenging,” says Zandi. “The British economic sun is definitely going to shine less bright.”

    And that’s with a deal.

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    #29357

    The VFM Addict
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    The Forbes article’s author: “I cover sports business with rare dips into b-schools, local economies”. Nevertheless. “Zandi is less optimistic. He thinks it could take multiple generations for the $2.6 billion economy to recover from Brexit. “Under the Theresa May proposal, which is most likely, the U.K.’s global orientation is diminished. It makes investment and trade more challenging,” says Zandi. “The British economic sun is definitely going to shine less bright.” And that’s with a deal.

    No, Dave, that’s because of that deal.    But why even consider that deal which all know is dead with Leavers, Remainers and most critical of all, the DUP all against it.

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29369

    Dave Rice
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    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 2,139

    Keep on dreaming of unicorns and sunny uplands.

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    #29370

    The VFM Addict
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    @thevfmaddict
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    Its just the EU we want to leave not Europe.   So continuing your comments re a dream…………..

    Lets get sensible (Captain Sensible).

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #29371

    Ed P
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    @edps
    Forumite Points: 3,359

    I’m sorry but anyone who thinks a Hard Brexit is the preferable option is definitely dreaming of pink Unicorns!

    Still I suppose I should take comfort that if a Hard Brexit wins the impacts will be so horrible that the Conservatives will never see political power again!

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