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Dental Care and NHS Funding

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Richard 8 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #30381

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps

    It looks like a succession of Health Ministers have scored a massive home goal by progressively increasing dental charges and simultaneously destroying NHS dental care.

    Heart disease and Dementia consume a disproportionate amount of NHS and Social Care resources, but there is a growing likelihood that a relatively small investment in preventative dental hygiene could have saved massive amounts of money as it appears that there is a strong link between Dental Caries and heart disease, and also a strong link between gum disease and dementia!

    Heart disease link

    Dementia link

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
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  • #30382

    The Duke
    Moderator
    @sgb101
    Forumite Points: 3,587

    I heard this years ago, can’t recall where. I thought it was a fact.

    #30387

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 6,134

    The ‘proof’ for a dementia link is fairly recent and based on studies in mice and people with dementia. As usual the old saw of correlation <> causation and proving causation will need many more stats and postulates for the mechanism. The same holds for heart disease but that emerged about 10 years ago and afaik the causation theories are still unproven, but more likely.

    #30390

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 4,509

    I have just 22 very crooked, worn teeth left. I have not been able to visit my dentist for some time due to more pressing medical concerns, but I went last week for my 6-monthly check. The Polish dentist who has looked at my chewing tackle for the last 8 years recommended an x ray and I agreed. He gave me a clean bill of health, no problems except the wear and crooked line up, but released me for another 6 months unless problems arise. He also commented that the half-broken front incisor he filled 3 years ago, and its loose companion, were no worse than they had ever been.

    This dentist told me when I first went to his practice, that some British dentists were too keen to “excavate and remove” teeth which could be treated and kept. He always says that even my crooked chompers are perfectly capable of lasting long enough to “give you a smile in your casket.” What a nice man. I think…

    The X ray cost £22, a small price to pay for knowing they will stay firm and enable me to remain a carnivore.

    Saus and mash tonight, with several veg, cooked as only my Gert can cook it.

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

    #30391

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 2,303

    My then dentist was banging the drum that dental care reduces heart problems a good deal longer ago than 10 years, nearer 20. While he is still within the same practice he took his services private and has a number of NHS dentists, several were Jewish who came and went on to further their studies, but the one I now have is a female Asian. All have stressed the need to restrict the build up of plaque as far as possible to maintain general as well as dental health. Bob, I agree with the analysis of that Polish dentist there have been some shocking cases of money making by dentists, though the fashion for such as veneers has helped the venial rob the gullible.

    #30392

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 2,545

    You have an NHS dentist ? How did you wangle that ? My guess would bribery or someone on the inside ?

    My dentist of 35 years, Dr Gradus, retired 3 years ago and I have been without one ever since.

    The NHS helpline gave me a list of 5 dentists, 4 of them don’t take NHS patients and the fifth is no longer in buisness.

    #30394

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 2,303

    I signed up in about 1992~3 and have been with the same practice ever since – just not the same dentist. My wife and I are scheduled for a check up this week, the kids are still registered there as well though we might/will face a few logistical issues with one of them. We heard that some had problems but the village has at least two dental practices with 200 yards of each other.

    #30396

    D-Dan
    Participant
    @d-dan
    Forumite Points: 1,403

    NHS dental care? Is that still a thing?

    Ryzen 7 1800X, 16 GB, 6 (yes - 6) HDs inc 2 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, NV GTX 1060 6GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

    #30399

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 4,509

    NHS dental care? Is that still a thing?

    Certainly is here, 2 NHS practices in Louth alone. When I first found the practice I use now, my dentist was an Iraqi. Between first and second visits, he went from just a few words of English and using the assistant as an interpreter, to speaking very good English. When I complemented him, he said that he had been studying all year, sincerely wanted to be British and have British-born children. I still see him now and again in the area: has his own private practice, has 3 lovely British kids and always acknowledges me.

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

    #30402

    PlaneMan
    Moderator
    @planeman
    Forumite Points: 4,379

    The last time I broke a tooth, on some unpopped pop corn, I went to my mothers garage and used some pliers to remove the offending gnasher. It was no fun but I despise people messing with my teeth or eyes.

    #30406

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 2,303

    PM, thank god I did not have that attitude, the cataract operation on my eyes has been magical. I can drive and day or night I can see anything from about 30 inches to nearly infinity and colours have a sharpness I did not know I had lost. For closer work I do use reading glasses.

    As for teeth, I admit I did neglect them for about 20 years but more or less got away with that though I have had a few issues. Impacted wisdom teeth were a real issue and required a fairly major lights out operation to dig them out of their hiding place where they were starting to cause real issues. However I still have my knashers and they work just fine for their intended function.

    #30409

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 6,134

    You are right Richard it is probably too late for us old Pharts but dental care maybe something that younger ones should make a priority.

    #30410

    PlaneMan
    Moderator
    @planeman
    Forumite Points: 4,379

    I take care of my teeth, just hate anybody poking around in my mouth.

    Have regular eye tests, a much as I hate them, as mum has glaucoma and a cataract. Only the 3rd time her operation has been cancelled at very short notice, so short I’d just dropped her off at the hospital……….

    #30411

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 6,134

    Depends what scares you most. Looking after teeth (i.e. caries) covers the heart disease aspect.

    Having seen a number of friends turned into living aggressive vegetables, it is dementia/Altzheimers that scares the crap out of me, and it appears that gum disease and cold sores are two things to avoid. You cannot avoid eventual death, but the period before most affects the ones you leave behind, and dementia can be extremely cruel.

    #30413

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 2,545

    You are right about it being difficult to separate cause and effect Ed. People who dont brush their teeth are unlikely to have the healthiest of lifestyles either ?

    #30416

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 2,303

    @PM I can and do understand the reasons behind your personal concerns and accept that you must work with them to achieve what balance you can. I thought that eyes would be the most terrifying operation site, but they were not and it was all sorted in minutes. Perhaps if they were not done in general hospitals but in dedicated through put ‘tunnels’ the cancellation rate for operations might be lower and the satisfaction rates for those patients (and other operations suited to such a new way of thinking) would be far higher. As far as I can remember my eye surgeon did about 16 such operations on his ‘operation day’ each week.

    #30417

    The Duke
    Moderator
    @sgb101
    Forumite Points: 3,587

    My wisdom teeth didn’t decide to make a showing until I was 28, they are all now just about showing, and every 3 months or so, one will decide to grow a bit. It’s been over a decade now, and the little shits have all taken out their next door next door neighbours..

    One oth them put pressure on its neighbour that put pressure on the root of the tooth next to it and it cracked the root, think like a snapping a chickens wish bone.

    So I went from a rairly decent full set to loosing 5 rear Teath in ten years. Still have the usless wisdom teeth, they won’t take them out, but now there is nothing next to them, when they grow it no longer hurts.

    You can’t tell they arnt there, and the rest of me teeth are fine for my age. And are whiter than before the wisdom teeth, do to packing in the fags. And latley I’ve packed in the coffee. I never ment to, bit had a serious bug early in Jan, realised I’d not had a cup for 7 days so decided to carrying it on. I’ve had two cups since.

    I was a 10 plus cups a day, so I’ve had to really up my Vimto intake, which I’ve found the hard to remember. So I make 8 bottles each morning and have them on my desk. It’s quite hard to drink just 4 lires a day I’ve found. But feel better or it.

    Ive also got the wife of coke (the drink), but had to by her a britta filer. Mainly cos the doc told her she was drinking to much of the stuff. I prefers Pepsi, as coke gives me heart burn.

    #30419

    Les.
    Participant
    @oldles
    Forumite Points: 626

    Twice I wrote most of the following, and it disappeared. Probably my fault, so I will write in Writer, then copy. Hopefully.

    Anyway, Bob, you have me beaten. I just have 16 left at a quick count.

    Aged nine in 1951, I was sentenced to 6 months at his Maj’s pleasure (Hospital, not the other place) as my doctor was instructed to examine me one Sunday by my mother. During that time, I had one (maybe two) extracted with gas. I managed to evade dentists until around 18 years when I had an abscess. At the second attempt, I found a dentist who proceeded to painfully pull two out. A year or so later, one Easter, another abscess saw me at the local hospital where a female dentist, Ceylonese I think, dug three out whilst I screamed with pain. By now my absolute fear of dentists was well established!

    Another three years before the third attack, when an almost retired dentist managed to painlessly inject me, then noisily and crunchingly extract one or two, but like the injection, painlessly.

    At 26 years, I attended the same practice for treatment, I think a repair to a front tooth, when I was asked had I ever had any of the following, including rheumatic fever. The reply had me told to go away, coe back nxt day after taking antibiotics. Working 40 miles distant, this was most inconvenient, so he agreed to send me out with a prescription and an instruction to go into town and eat a proper meal, as he could see my fear.

    After that, I signed up for regular appointments and treatment as required, and after another 20 years or so, I had overcome the phobia.

    My dentist here on the Isle of man gave up NHS about a dozen years ago, so I now pay through Denplan.

    About three years ago, he stopped giving me antibiotics before treatment as it was now considered unnecessary, but I was to keep some at home just in case.

    About two years ago, another abscess, but this time extraction was avoided. Similar treatment 50 or so years ago may have seen me ahead Bob.

    Cheers, Les.

    #30421

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 4,509

    You got me there Les!

    I had a similar traumatic experience at a dentist clinic when young, having a cheek tooth extracted which was in so deep and took so long to remove that I wound up with a bruise to my chest where the dentist shoved his knee for purchase. There is still a lump of that tooth left on the inside of the gum, it broke into several pieces. Made me hate dental treatment for years. But the real damage was caused by Army butchers dentists, not one of the 3 who treated me did so without pain and what I now consider may have been unnecessary extractions.

    Nolan, as Richard says there are worse things to mess around with than your teeth and eyes. Having recently had Ultrasound and a camera inserted into my poor battered dingaling as a result of a bleeding, enlarged prostate, (for the 3rd time in 13 months) I can say that is undeniably true. The secondary procedure of a consultant’s probing of the fundamental orifice, is also unpleasant and very painful. However, the eventual ‘All Clear’ verdict is fitting compensation!

    Ed: having an 89 year old brother with Alzheimers which has become very severe dementia, I share your fear. My brother has total incontinence and does not recognise either his wife, 6 surviving children, or anyone else. Whilst I have faced some severe physical challenges, I am deathly afraid of anything similar. I believe my brother inherited some of our mother’s mental problems: he has made some strange moves and questionable decisions in his life. In short, I would not trade all the pain and operations I have suffered over the years, for my brother’s problem. The jokey, fun-loving person that was my brother no longer inhabits his mind and body: my greatest wish is that he will soon go to sleep and never wake again.

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

    #30426

    Tippon
    Keymaster
    @tippon
    Forumite Points: 2,354

    This dentist told me when I first went to his practice, that some British dentists were too keen to “excavate and remove” teeth which could be treated and kept.

    I’ll definitely agree with that. I didn’t look after my teeth properly when I was younger, so about ten years or so ago I went to the dentist to get them sorted. I knew they were going to be fairly bad, but most of them were intact. I’ve now only got three teeth behind my incisors on the left hand side – one on the top and two on the bottom.

    One of the bottom teeth was broken, but it was dead, so obviously not causing pain. It was partially hollowed and the piece touching the tooth in front had come away, leaving a U shape from above. I went in expecting this to be filled, and the dentist pulled both teeth. He told me that the ‘good’ tooth had been rotted away from the inside by the broken tooth. I had a similar problem with the tooth next to my incisor on the same side, as the incisor had been broken when I’d been assaulted (giving me the sort of story that would keep most people away from the dentist… ). The dentist pulled the remains of the incisor (which, again, I thought was ok), and the broken tooth next to it. My wisdom tooth had cracked, so I was sent to the hospital to have it pulled along with the remains of the others.

    The dentist told me not to worry, as he had a plan to rebuild my mouth, probably using false teeth or some sort of plug. I can’t remember the name of it, but it sounded similar to a crown. I had the teeth pulled and the follow up visits at the hospital, and was told to wait the usual six months for a checkup to make sure that everything had healed properly. I went back and the dentist had left the practice!

    #30430

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 2,303

    Tippon, that was a bad saga, though I am not sure where it has left you. My wife lost some teeth during a bicycle accident many years  ago and we paid for a fixed plate to replace the lost teeth also many years ago. She was told it should last 25 years, but so far about 40 years later it has survived countless operations, chemo, and other intense pressures.

    Though I neglected my oral situation for some years I escaped quite lightly. I did need one or two quite extensive fillings, only then to find much of one of the teeth then crumbled requiring a furthe intervention and a couple of painless root canal jobs but so far all are still present and correct though a couple have been painlessly capped.

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