Flying Turkey Redux

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Ed P 1 week, 5 days ago.

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  • #13162

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Coins: 164

    That about covers it then 😊

    I still think it would have been wise to get the new planes into service before we retired the old ones though.

    #13178

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Coins: 693

    I agree with Ed on this one: the Rafale is a very good aircraft and would be tailor-made for a Rolls Royce engine. BAE to build it under licence and tell the Yanks to have the Flying Turkey at Thanksgiving. Dump the Trident and try to move the white elaphant carriers to some banana republic.

    The government will of course not do that: bowing to US pressure is now the default option.

    “If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.”
    ― Philip K. Dick, legendary SF writer.

    #13704

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Coins: 733

    At last some signs of sense from the MOD – maybe we can reduce our commitment to this load of rubbish. El Reg link

    Maybe we have Brexit to thank for this, but it is more likely due to our acknowledging that we are just a sixth-rate power.

    #13716

    The Duke
    Moderator
    @sgb101
    Forumite Coins: 769

    Sixth would be stretching the truth.

    It is about time we realise our place in the world. Unless we are gonna go all out and build the best navel and land force, or at least one to match, which we don’t have the cash or manpower to do.

    We should either join an EU army, a cheap way to become the number one, or simply opt out of sticking our noses where they don’t belong.

    If we stopped meddling, people may stop hating us.

    #13727

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Coins: 693

    That’s commonsense Steve, this government will not listen. There are still too many oldphart Tories (not necessarily old in years) who think we still have an Empire. Any PM who appoints Boris Johnson as Foreign Minister, is obviously looking for a confrontation with someone

    Forget upgrading Trident: Mutually Assured Destruction is just that: destruction. I would rather not have my country participate in the End Of The World, just in case I am mistaken and there actually is a Deity and an Afterlife. Imagine 60-odd million burnt Brits all  queueing behind the charred Yanks, Russians and Chinese in front Old Nick and all bleating, “Honest Boss, it weren’t us, it were our politicians!”

    I say we should bite the bullet, stuff the Yanks, cancel the Turkey and buy a navalised Rafale, maybe to build under licence with a suitable Rolls Royce engine and BAE electronics. Use the money saved to build and train a force of well armed but smaller naval craft which will patrol our own borders. That will also allow us to keep EU and other fishing fleets away from our newly-independent waters.

    “If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.”
    ― Philip K. Dick, legendary SF writer.

    #13738

    The Duke
    Moderator
    @sgb101
    Forumite Coins: 769

    I’ve said for years, why can’t we just pretend we have trident, or if we are making crap up something better.

    The best, most destructive, invisible WMDs, the world has ever seen, as Trump would say. Lol

    A smaller highly trained force, that could just look after us. I’d still do nation service to. One it keeps unemployment lower with youth.  two,  it would mean we had a nation of 20m plus  trained personal   (eventually), that we could call on. Three, they could be used as a work force to build bunkers, etc around the country. (my Jr school had a bunker especially for the Russians). Four, it’s just bloody good for a kid, it teaches some good lessons, even if you don’t get it at the time.

    I’d have anyone that leave school at 16 do 6 years. Collage leavers (18), do 4 years. And if you go uni I’d want them to do 2 years Starting before the age of 30. If you attend uni but don’t graduate, you’d do 4 years, starting before your 30th. If would put the draft dodgers off, while also insentavising those who want to pass a wee bit.

    And I’d give the cream the option to become full time at the end if their national service.

    Collage and uni grads would be put to work doing their choice qualifications where possible, this would give them the all important  experience that all employers demand today.

    #13745

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Coins: 733

    Singapore has an NS similar to your suggestion. However, graduates hate it as they see NS getting in the way of them earning big bucks. Possibly enforced reserve training for graduates might be more appropriate and better accepted by both graduates and employers (they do lose some of the creativity as a result of NS conformity).

    I used to much prefer employing Singaporean female graduates as they were both more creative and more inclined to willingly give their opinions. (I hate ‘yes men’.)

    #13759

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Coins: 693

    The Bündesrepublik ended NS in 2011, and are now considering reintroducing it:     http://tinyurl.com/y9t5vzbw

    In the 60’s and 70’s, when I served in BAOR, there was full conscription for I believe 18 months. Conscientious Objectors could serve their time in the Fire, Police (by selection only) ambulance/paramedics, or as Hospital Orderlies. I was on Exercises with some of the Bündeswehr Wehrpflicht (conscription) lads. TBH, I would have preferred to have gone to war alongside them, than most of the regular American Army I met. At the time, the FRG (West Germany) could put 1.5 million conscripts and Reservists into the field. Rations for the ‘cannon fodder’ was a thick plastic bag full of Würst und Brot (sausage & bread) with a canteen of water. Those young lads thought at that time, as did we all, that the Warsaw Pact nations might come screaming at us in millions at any time. The ones I met were determined to defend their country against the people their parents and grandparents had told them about. the regular Bündeswehr troops were as good then as anything in NATO, and better than most. They hated their parade uniforms, which had been designed to make them look as “un-Warlike” as possible. “Scheisse hosen, scheisse Blusen, scheisse jacke” in the words of one guy I knew.

    “If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.”
    ― Philip K. Dick, legendary SF writer.

    #17998

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Coins: 733

    I should perhaps have said the very expensive (blank chequebook) Flying Turkey. It would seem that once again the MOD have been taken for a ride by the Yanks and we are going to have to pay yet another third of a billion pounds just to get the Flying Turkey into a state where it might possibly be able to both fly and fight! I’ll bet that isn’t the last money call that is made for this heap of ‘flying’ scrap.

    Thanks again to ElReg for highlighting facts that the MOD and Yanks would rather were buried in an obscure Parliamentary response. link

    #19622

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Coins: 733

    Block 3 testing for the Turkey has finished, but the US has suspended delivery which will mean further delays to the British version of the Turkey. We should however get deliveries before it is completely obsolete. Assuming that is, that the Block 4 testing goes better than that for Block 3, however as the above link hints the auguries do not look great.

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