Garage Door Insulation
January 13, 2018 at 1:17 am #15601KeymasterTippon@tippon
I’ve got a garage built into the house and it’s under the bedrooms. It’s got a metal roller shutter door that may as well not be there as far as letting heat out is concerned. We use the garage every day, so I can’t block it up, but need to insulate it. I’m already planning on renewing the insulation in the ceiling. I’ve been looking at rubber draught excluders for the bottom of the door too.
I’ve been told that an insulated frame around the door is probably the best way to keep the heat in, but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for the door itself.
January 16, 2018 at 12:20 pm #15740ParticipantEd P@edpsForumite Points: 13,295
Richard, I suspect that the original testing was carried out on a concrete slab/car park – probably in open air conditions. If so the drainage systems, degree of fall of flooring , location of first fire (near entrance/exit ramp?) as well as the containment of the fireball(s) would alter the initial test results in a real-life situation. I gather that the likely candidate for the ignition source was a Land Rover a marque that could almost be as old as me! I’m very aware that some ‘agricultural’ Land Rovers sometimes have ‘other’ fuels in their tanks. Some fuels can even be more dangerous than petrol from a fire risk standpoint – I’m not suggesting this happened in this instance, I’m just pointing out that there are a variety of other aspects that can affect spread/intensity.00January 16, 2018 at 12:37 pm #15742ModeratorThe Duke@sgb101Forumite Points: 10,834
Chris, rw grading what you say about “life safely” in a normal carpark where people are slowly coming and going in a steady trickle that would be fine, shower in the one at liverpools case, that carpark is mainly for the Areana, this means it has the best part of 15k people decent into it at the end of a show. It ends ups with queues up every stair case, its a mess. And even longer queue in cars to get out of the place. If a fire was to start in this period, i doubt they could get all out in 30mins.
Locals don’t use the muti storie as it adds a good 2hours onto your night. There is quite slot of free street parking within a 5 min walk.
Why don’t they have some type of sprinkler systems? It’s not like they can damage cars by dumping tones of water or foam on them.
On a related issue, we buy my SiL and niece tickets to the horse show for Xmas each year, usually its the last show (the night of the fire) however this year they went the afternoon the day before. She would of been pissed if her car got burnt down, she only got it in December .00January 16, 2018 at 1:17 pm #15743ParticipantRichard@sawbomanForumite Points: 6,176
The ‘start of the fire’ photograph I saw suggested it was an agricultural style almost certainly older Land Rover.I guess the owner is pretty gutted at what happened.
The space was being used by visitors and participants at a horse show, even for stabling the horses, so agricultural connections were almost certain. I agree that some vehicles might well have had other fluids and gasses on board.
The effect of ‘cook off’ on some fluids should never be under estimated, I have watched a pole mounted oil filled distribution transformer cook and burn – from a safe distance. It was dramatic against the night sky but the noise was the major impression, our power was off for obvious reasons, so it was the only ‘entertainment’ we could watch. Happily only the pole and the transformer were hurt both were terminal. A tank farm fire was even more dramatic, really hot oil takes up more space than ambient heat oil, so the bunds did not hold it back. Cooked tanks are awfully dramatic when they go off. As a general rule solids and liquids do not burn but heat them until they crack, boil them or spray them as fine droplets and all sorts of problems arise
The random nature of vehicles these days could make estimations harder to generate.
I am a little older than Land Rover, maybe not so reliable, though not all of the oldest ones are still running. I recently saw that the original 1948 Motor Show Land Rover has been rediscovered and is being refurbished.00January 17, 2018 at 9:44 pm #15795ParticipantDrezha@drezhaForumite Points: 2,195
Thank you drezha, a very good, useful, educational (to me at least) response. I wondered what age the cars were that were tested as it is my impression that many current cars contain a range of highly combustible plastic materials such as wings and bumpers that do burn somewhat hotter than the metal on some older vehicles. The use of rust free but less fire resistant plastic fuel tanks is another variable that may or may not be relevant. Though to go against that, the original fire start vehicle was suggested to have been an older Land Rover. It is all guess work and speculation so its time for me to shut up.
In the study carried out by BRE, all vehicles were no more than 5 years old (that was one of the major criteria). (Some of these were sourced from the local police impound 😉 )
Duke – All of that is taken in to account in the calculations. The staircases are protected spaces. We assume two people per car (which is what guidance states). We assume worst case that all car park spaces are full and filled with people. The stair cases would be protected for 30 minutes, so someone getting in to one should be protected from fire and smoke for 30 minutes.
Srry for delay responding, I’m at RAFC Cranwell this week on my officers initial course.00January 18, 2018 at 5:04 pm #15808ParticipantBob Williams@bullstuff2Forumite Points: 11,837
Good luck with the course Chris.
I have seen the results of fires in large buildings, particularly referencing the N.I. troubles. During tours of the place in the late 60’s and 70’s, I saw a lot of the results of explosions and fires, some involving gas. Blast is a very strange phenomenon: it can refuse to go around corners and bends in one building, or happily penetrate every nook and cranny in another. My section was first into one such event in Belfast, we helped as many as we could whilst avoiding insults and missiles thrown at us by sections of the populace. I won’t go into descriptions of injuries and deaths, save to say that people without any visible physical damage were stone dead. A Fire Officer told me that the fire had taken hold because certain materials designed to stop the spread, had been stripped away by blast. “Fire Doors” had been blown away and the result was what he called a “chimney effect”: corridoors and floors had simply take the fire higher internally.
A few miles away from my village, directly adjacent to an A road, there stands a large house which caught fire one night about 5 years ago, whilst the owners were absent. There was local rumour that it was an insurance fraud, but that was dispelled when it turned out that the owners were in financial difficulties and had not in fact insured the place. It stood empty and forlorn for 2 years, until the owner returned and attempted to rebuild it, having brought a caravan to live in whilst he rebuilt. Then a truck came off the road, careered into the building, destroying the rebuilt frontage and the caravan, whose occupant was a mile away at the local pub. Since then it has been offered for sale by more than one Agency, there have been lots of enquiries but no takers. According to a local Council contact, the interior brickwork is vitrified and brittle, whilst the structure is declared unstable and unsafe because of that and the frontal damage. Any buyer has to demolish and start again.
Severe heat can do strange things to an internal structure, whilst not being evident from the outer. The building is a local eyesore on the way to the coast.
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