Insurance question

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Richard 22 hours, 8 minutes ago.

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  • #30643

    Les.
    Participant
    @oldles

    This is one for any “better than” Barrack room lawyers (such as me) to better advise.

    I recently found my nice new (to me) Mitsubishi Gallant Equippe had a gouged offside rear. It had obviously happened where I had parked it just down the road from the cottage. A neighbour is having work done there, with various delivery lorries, having to manoeuvre close to my car. Clearly from the damage this was caused by a green lorry which must have turned close, then reversed around to the delivery spot, hitting it in the process. After accusing one delivery company, to then realise their lorries were blue, I was advised of two other deliverers. GOT HIM!  After visiting their yard, the boss saw the damage, with the car lined up to the LH rear corner of their lorry and blame was accepted.

    I got a (rather frightening) quote from the body repair company and forwarded a copy. They put it in the hands of their insurers. I have not so far involved my insurers as I regard this as a straightforward third party claim against the haulage company for loss/damage to my property.

    It seems their insurance company insist on having my insurance details (name and policy number).

    It seems to me that they have no right to such info, but look for better counsel to confirm my thoughts, or otherwise.

    Les.

     

    • This topic was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Les..
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  • #30647

    PlaneMan
    Moderator
    @planeman
    Forumite Points: 1,619

    It’s standard practice for the insurance companies to deal with each other, not you.

     

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    #30652

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/if-youre-in-an-accident

    will tell you the current requirements in law.  You ARE also obliged to inform your insurance company even if you do not intend to claim. I would also assume at the same time you would provide details of the person / company responsible for the accident and also supply their details and ins. co to your company.  They will then deal with it.

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30653

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 2,750

    The frightening scale of the quote is not unusual with modern cars. If anything got pushed out of place it could easily require a new rear box section. My wife had two accidents within three months due to inattentive drivers running into her at slow speed while she was stopped. (both admitted fault, said the sun was in their eyes DofE style). The damage was almost superficial except the panel mounting screws had been pushed through the panel – £400/pop was the result.

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    #30659

    Les.
    Participant
    @oldles
    Forumite Points: 315

    Hugh, that item you linked to is for a driver who causes or is involved in an accident.

    I was not involved, and did not find out until next day. I do not believe the driver was unaware, and it took my “detective” self to trace him. In fact I have no info on the driver, just the company but got the acceptance I mentioned.  There was an initial reluctance to admit it was their driver, at which point i rang the police and made a brief report which the officer logged (and I have his contact details. It seems to me I have a 3rd party claim against the driver, which is “owned” by the company since it occurred during his performance of his work. The company choose to pass this to THEIR insurers, I did not do that. In law my claim stops at the driver(=employer) with their insurance company being purely incidental as far as I am concerned.

    Manx law may differ, but is essentially the same as UK law.

    Am I wrong?  Les.

    PS, Ed, How about £1057????? Between us, more than the car cost me, including new discs, pads and some tyres.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Les.. Reason: Addenda re Manx law plus PS
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    #30664

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170

    The above gives details of what to do. However in practical terms one would have to decide whether, under the circumstances, the offending driver, could have been aware of the accident – really this is a matter of fact from the scene. At one time the police did deal ‘properly’ with accidents but then realised that for £70 any insurance company got the full works of the incident at a very, very cheap rate – they stopped it and I can’t really say that I blame the police for this.

    Technically the offending driver should have stopped and given his details to ANYONE who was present at that time – even if it was the local vicar, failing that he should have reported it to the police. It hinges initially – if the driver was aware of it. To be honest about 18 months ago I witnessed a bus hit a parked and stationary BMX MPV as it pulled out to go down a one way street!!  Bus drives think they own the roads and are Gods thereon. When the police spoke to the driver ON THE PHONE (!!!!) he stated that he was aware that he had hit something and thinking it was only a roadside fence drove off. The police said that despite this they did not believe he could have known about it (bow locks – his bus at the rear bounced outwards!!). In the end the bus co. insurance paid up.  Unfortunately that is the way of the world these days – just let the insurances get on with it. Far less aggro for you, and tbh I suspect that the insurance companies will do a far better job than the police (I’m very sorry to say!!).

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30668

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 2,750

    Hope they do not find out the value of the car, the Insurance Company is likely to just write it off in those circumstances.

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    #30670

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 1,744

    Too true Ed. A neighbour was waiting at some of those damned temporary lights while the mud pie men played drink my tea. The person behind forgot to stop in time so a small dent in the rear door of the car and a split bumper resulted, the door and all four others was still fully functional. The next day they received an offer on the car in full and final settlement – oh was there any personal injury element waiting? When told there was not, the driver was shaken rather than severely jolted the offer was confirmed and they went out and bought an automatic replacement that was 5 years younger and had done about 50,000 miles. The ‘scrapped’ car was drivable and in all other respects immaculate, I wonder how much they will get for all the parted out bits.

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    #30676

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    BMX MPV – Ooooooopppppppppppppppps  – please read as BMW MPV!!

    Unfortunately though your ‘pride and joy’ may be worth a mint to you, the bottom line with the ins co. is value – a 40 year old Ford Cortina in pristine condition has a bottom line value – that’s what it is worth to the ins co. Though I have to admit I have no idea how they value ‘classic cars but am aware of classic car insurances which may be different, a  ‘bog standard car’ has a bottom line even in showroom condition. To the ins. cos. it the value to them and not the value of the car to you.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by dwynnehugh.

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30680

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 1,744

    I believe that the classic car values were based on an agreed insurance value for the car as is/was, though that may have changed. Pardon me if I have less than zero appreciation for the wriggle capabilities of the insurance industry. In my opinion they can make the proverbial dog’s hind leg look like a perfect straight edge.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Richard.
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    #30688

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    The answer is very obvious – READ THE SMALL print – however home many homes these days have electron microscopes?

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30714

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 2,431

    Les: find the value of your car from this site, just check the Year box:

    http://tinyurl.com/y5d5btr7

    Based upon that, you might be horrified to discover that it is a write-off. Sorry to bring you bad news, but that is the way of the motor insurance world nowadays. I join others in advising you to let the insurance companies sort it out. I applaud your detective work, why let these people get away with damaging your motor, which is worth more to you than any insurance quote?

    “If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.”
    ― Philip K. Dick, legendary SF writer.

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    #30725

    Les.
    Participant
    @oldles
    Forumite Points: 315

    Bob, that link starts at 2008, one year too late for mine, but gives me a $3,615 valuation. Dollars?

    Anyway, converted to sterling that is way above my “valuation” given to MY insurance company, and even more than I paid. When it bought it, it had stood unused for 2 or 3 years, the owner having acquired a Co. car. It had one tyre well beyond useless, one brake binding, but otherwise VERY tidy looking. To most people, unsaleable I guess, hence the low asking price and the lower offer from me. My pal who does all my car stuff (bike stuff only for me these last 15 years) fitted new pads and discs all around, plus one front brake caliper piston, and some good used tyres. It was my pride and joy.

    You may remember I had a Mitsubishi “Space Runner” a few years ago, but parted with it because I hated the 5 speed manual. Every 5 speed I have driven in the last 30 years has been the same. I bought a VERY low mileage Toyota Corolla, but a bit tatty around the gills as the PO had started nudging into stuff (age related I suspect) Auto, much lower ride height than the mitzi, and around 30mpg against Mitzis 33 mpg. Just done 264 miles on 33.08 litres (£40) which is just ever 36mpg with this one.

    The car is parked near the cottage, a “hit and run” damages it, which I eventually establish. I want it sorted. To me this is quite simple. The driver, or since he was doing his legitimate work, his employer is liable to put me back to the situation I was in before he damaged it. They may well choose to pass this to their insurance company, with whom they have a contract, but the liability remains the same. It is not within their gift to decide on whether or not my car is a “right off”, though if the cost of repairs exceeds the probable value of my car, they are at liberty to negotiate with me. I may be prepared to accept a fair market valuation, or I could require them to provide a similar vehicle of broadly the same value. I suspect payment for the quoted repair is their best and cheapest option.

    I am not an easy pushover.

    I am a little disappointed by most of the replies here. They all seem to be based on ME HAVING an ACCIDENT, and MY responsibilities in such event. My car was damaged by ANOther, and he must deal with that outcome.

    Once this is all over, certainly before my next renewal, I WILL inform my insurance company, but not until then.

    The first reply was from Planeman saying it is normal for the insurance companies to sort it out between themselves. Very convenient. They used to call it knock for knock, maybe still do, but that is nothing to do with me, and smells like a comfy arrangement which suits them. No reason why it should suit me.

    Back in about 1972/3, I taught my first wife to drive, in due course she passed her test, and I gave her the 1959 BMW 700 saloon I had converted from LHD to RHD. I lovely little car. (I had my 700 Sport Coupe, a real little goer.) The day after, she was nearing the top of our lane when a clown came the other way at speed and hit her. Details exchanged, liability admitted by him. Next day, he decided it was her fault not his. I had surveyed the scene, and contacted his insurance company with my assessment, clearly showing it could only have been caused by him travelling far too fast, or asleep at the wheel, down a narrow, downhill country lane. They paid up. I have had two other situations where my logic has prevailed and I got a correct outcome, as I intend to this time. I may be getting older, but have not reached the stupid stage yet.

    Les.

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by Les.. Reason: Sp plus missing worhs
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    #30727

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 1,744

    I am unclear why you should need to involve anyone. A neighbour’s visitor did the same sort of thing to my car and gladly* paid up for the repairs. (A slightly dented plastic bumper and scratches to its paintwork.) I got several quotes and settled for the easiest to use, which was also the best priced one. One outfit clearly wanted to bulk up the work and it left a slight aroma of decaying ‘padding’.

    If it was a personal injury case where you had been injured or your garden wall had been knocked down, why would any other party be drawn into the issue, (e.g. your life insurer?). I would really like to understand that one. I smell a underhand motive like trying to recover the payout through an increase in your premium in the next and subsequent years.

    Their insurance should put you back where you should be without the other party’s misadventure, no more no less

    *Perhaps not really gladly, sheepishly perhaps but still readily via the neighbour, his son.

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    #30748

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    I think you will find that somewhere in your insurance policy clauses that you will be required to inform them that you have been involved in an accident though your car was parked and unattended at the time. The question is “have you been involved in an accident?” not “have you been involved in a blameworthy accident?”

    Hiding things from your insurance company is never a good idea especially if the other side are dealing with it through theirs.

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30751

    Les.
    Participant
    @oldles
    Forumite Points: 315

    Hugh, if you look at my last reply I wrote:-

    Once this is all over, certainly before my next renewal, I WILL inform my insurance company, but not until then.

    It will certainly be before renewal.

    Les.

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    #30760

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    Ed P – Yes I did note the comment in your last post but if the offending vehicles driver / company owners do go their insurance route, their insurance company will find it very easy to find yours. It COULD be a matter that your insurance co might call ‘failing to disclose relevant matters’ and currently with all insurances etc. on connected databases the non-disclosure might be recorded for the future.

    Dave

    Can’t see what the problems is in this respect?

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 20 hours ago by dwynnehugh.

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30765

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 2,750

    I assume you meant Richard or Les, not me.

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    #30766

    dwynnehugh
    Participant
    @dwynnehugh
    Forumite Points: 630

    Yes sorry, got the flu, head not too good at the best of times even worse these last few days.  Come around to my H/A and beat me to death for the error – it would be a relief!! 😁

    The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

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    #30957

    Les.
    Participant
    @oldles
    Forumite Points: 315

    Yesterday I had a call from “Island Timber’s” insurance company assessor asking could he call in to look at the damage. In the event he did not arrive, but rang me today to apologise. apparently when he drove past the lane he was on a call (hands free I hope) but either today or later yesterday called in at the body repairer’s offices and viewed their photos. He has now given them the go ahead, they will order parts and contact me when they arrive. I will probably get a courtesy car for the duration of the work.

    It would seem I am on to a successful outcome on my terms as I expected.

    I will report back when the work is completed.

    Les.

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    #30960

    Richard
    Participant
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 1,744

    Sounds like the matter is progressing as it should. I am not sure that the wording ‘have you been involved in accident?’ should really be held to apply to a situation such as this . You were not in anyway involved, since you were not even there. Hopefully it is a point that has been understood by their insurance company.

    I accept that insurance companies are as slippery as a box of lubricated eels. A recent case saw AXA decline 90% of a claim because the now comatose injured party had not declared an inhaler they once got 4 years ago and about which no one else knows anything. ‘Helpfully’, confidentiality allows the insurance company to see this data, but prevents anyone else knowing what went on. Clearly that is (not) in the patient’s interest! I am now reconstructing my medical history so that rather than simply filling in any unlikely future insurance proposal box I can dump the fullest file of data on their lap and tell them to quote or walk away before any possible travel, with an E&OE foot note of course.

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