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  • #43070
    Participant
    Military Espionage 2Ed P
    @edps

    As revealed via Hacker News it is salutary to think of all the military intelligence that is leaked by the mobile phones of military personnel. it is even more worrying that commercial companies mine phone data and sell it on willy-nilly.

    I do not read Norwegian, and unless you do you will just look at the pretty pics. as I did. This blog is apparently an article on the military data sold by the data mining company Tamoco and shows the locations of the major military locations in Norway including those of their special forces. As an aside I did not realise how worried Norway is about Sweden invading Oslo!

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Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
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  • #43071
    Participant
    Military Espionage 3Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 12,988

    As an aside I did not realise how worried Norway is about Sweden invading Oslo!

    The two Scandinavians have a history of conflict, Ed. Denmark had already lost a war with Sweden, making several territorial concessions which included Norway. In 1814 the Danes covertly encouraged Norway into a war of independence. Norway lost, having a much smaller army than Sweden’s battle-hardened troops. The result was that Denmark had to make more territorial concessions and Norway became swallowed by Sweden, which at the time was a big power in Europe, supported by the UK, Russia and North Germany, all allied against Napoleon’s France. Sweden’s king became ruler of both Sweden and Norway.

    Times and international relations changed. Sweden lost much of her military and international clout. By 1905 Norway had developed into a liberal, democratic nation, declaring and achieving independence, supported strongly by the UK. Norway still remains independent, refusing full membership of the EU and taking associate membership.

    I have (Google) – translated some of the article, but as you know there is too much to show here. This is just the initial few statements:

    This is Rena camp. One of the most important military areas in Norway. The orange dots show 40 mobiles that have been on the site. NRK has tracked down the mobile owners movements, in and out of working hours.

    When mobile becomes the enemy

    Every day, Norwegian officers and soldiers shout where they are. Without knowing it.
    NRK has acquired information on the movements of Norwegians from a British company. The company has a business address in the heart of London, and states on its website that they “make accurate data accessible to everyone”.
    The data NRK holds on shows accurate positions for 140,000 mobiles and tablets from 2019. The information comes from apps Norwegians have installed.

    The data package cost NOK 35,000 and shows how easy it is to map parts of the lives of military personnel.
    Several of the persons NRK has found are officers with in-depth knowledge of the Armed Forces’ weaknesses and strengths. Others have access to sensitive areas. This included, among other things, a soldier who has stayed in the area of ​​the Armed Forces’ elite elite soldiers, and a person who has stayed at one of the Intelligence Service’s stations in Northern Norway.

    The information from the apps made it possible to see which houses some of them slept in, where they worked, what addresses they visited, and where they were at leisure. – If I had been a foreign intelligence, I would have regarded this as a powerful planning tool, which can be used to survey individuals, says Erik Reichborn-Kjennerud at the Norwegian Foreign Policy Institute (NUPI).

    NRK’s findings concern the Defense’s top management.

    – I personally find it a bit uncomfortable to know how closely you can conduct monitoring only when purchasing data from a third party, says Vice Admiral Elisabeth Natvig. She is the commander of the Defense Staff and is second in the series of commands in the Armed Forces. She will now look at the Armed Forces’ routines and regulations for how military personnel use the smartphone.

    – I never think it is true that we can say that we have done enough, says Vice Admiral Natvig.

    Yet another NATO member that cannot teach its Armed Forces military security.

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

    #43108
    Participant
    Military Espionage 4The Duke
    @sgb101
    Forumite Points: 11,208

    Given thier work, maybe they shouldn’t have their personal mobiles with them while on duty.

    I can’t see why the military ever let it become the normal. I was serving when mobiles was becoming main stream (1997), by about 99 we all had one (all useless and expensive). We was never allowed them with us when in uniform/on duty.

    Maybe once you become part of the upper tier elite you should just not have a mobile. After all you do go home, where your kids sleep every night! So if not for country, do it to keep your family safe.

    #43109
    Participant
    Military Espionage 2Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 15,276

    It isn’t just military guys that need to learn security, but also beer-drinking bods from GCHQ!

    El Reg link

    #43173
    Participant
    Military Espionage 4The Duke
    @sgb101
    Forumite Points: 11,208

    Totally agree Ed. I’d put the in the same box as elite forces. Just a different type.

    #43483
    Participant
    Military Espionage 2Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 15,276

    There are different stories about how the Argentinians learned about the compromise of their encipherments. The most common explanation is that they found out via member of Parliament Ted Rowlands who revealed in the House of Commons on 3 April 1982, that GCHQ was reading Argentine diplomatic communications.

    I guess one should add idiot politicians to the list of people who should know better. The above quote comes from a Dutch article about Maximator (not the Munich beer) which is the European equivalent of Five Eyes. (link here – a good read)

    #43488
    Participant
    Military Espionage 8Dave Rice
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 8,334

    And an Alexa in every home?

    #43493
    Participant
    Military Espionage 3Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 12,988

    Very interesting link Ed, thank you. Always been interested in Military Intelligence, since experiences with certain Green Slime* people and tactics during N.I. service. I discovered that some personnel were good, decent, hard working operatives, whilst an admittedly tiny minority were frankly useless and often dangerous to their own ‘side’.

    Fascinating story, especially the details regarding the Falklands Conflict. A translation of the German reads: –

    Since the British had to be seen as a constant freelancer for this operation, it can be said that the outcome of the Falklands War in 1982 was significantly influenced, if not decided, by the operation described here

    And at the same time, a French team of arms technicians from Dassault were explaining to the Argentinians how to bypass the faults deliberately introduced into Exocet missiles by the French Military, at the request of the British government. That technical team remained in Argentina until shortly before the conflict began, then was returned to France by a circuitous route. British ships sunk and lives lost.

    *”Green Slime” is the name given to M.I. operatives and activities, by the ordinary British soldier. I once rescued a document from beneath the back seat of a car obviously used by a Green Slime operative in Belfast, and returned it to him. “Fell out of my brief case.”

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

    #43531
    Participant
    Military Espionage 10Drezha
    @drezha
    Forumite Points: 2,396

    I was serving when mobiles was becoming main stream (1997), by about 99 we all had one (all useless and expensive). We was never allowed them with us when in uniform/on duty..

    When we do base visits, we often have to leave to our phones outside certain locations – avoids people taking photos of items they shouldn’t do.

    It reminds me of the news a few years ago about Strava global heat map and military bases in the middle of nowhere… (Wired, Guardian). It was apt, as I had recently gone for a run around RAF Leeming and it hadn’t occured to me…

    #43546
    Participant
    Military Espionage 3Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 12,988

    The day is not far off when the growth of technology and the introduction of ever-smaller, ever-smarter devices, will destroy secrecy and topple tyrants. It is a race between private industry developments and military counter-efforts. Complicated by industrial espionage.

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

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