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Off with his head!

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This topic contains 261 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Ed P 1 week, 6 days ago.

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  • #36937

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps

    Supreme Court: Suspending Parliament was unlawful, judges rule.

    Irrespective of Brexit I am extremely glad to see this ruling. Ever since TBLiar took us into an illegal war with the threat of proroguing in the background  I have been very concerned about our system of elected sometimes unelected temporary dictatorship. We needed some checks and balances against a deluded leader, and now we have a precedent.

    The topic header was of course tongue in cheek, what sanction if any there is for misleading the monarch remains to be seen, but the mendacious BoJo would be well advised to avoid Scotland for a while as he has been in contempt of their court for over a week!

Viewing 20 replies - 241 through 260 (of 261 total)
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  • #38365

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 8,707

    The big difference is that the young are starting to weaponise the polling booth. In my generation the young marched and made a loud noise, but did not bother to vote as soon as they were 21. The drop in voting age and politicisation of the Universities is making a big difference e.g. Canterbury, and now Brunel (which latter used to be just mature students and those going on after an HND.)

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    #38373

    Dave Rice
    Moderator
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 4,183

    JCD, the age at which people start switching votes from Labour to Conservative increases all the time. Just look at the average age of a Conservative Party member – 57. By far the biggest age group is 66+

    What do my kids have to lose? Not the house we did at their age. Very few of their friends have what we would have called a decent job despite being well educated.

    They are sick of being dismissed as “millenials” and what happened in the Referendum has really stirred things up. They are registering in their hundreds of thousands and they are organising.

    Class loyalties are going out of the window in the face of Brexit but if anyone thinks the Labour Brexiteers will be changing en masse, I can’t see it. Post Office IT was based in Chesterfield and I have a lot of friends in that area and see the chatter on their Facebook feeds. They still hate what the Conservatives did to the area with a passion, they may vote for the Brexit Party but not Boris. The Tories would do better standing down there but it seems their arrogance won’t allow it.

    Boris’s antics may go down well with his core voters but they aren’t with the people he needs to win over to get a majority.

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    #38377

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,729

    I have said before that I speak to many young people, as each of my grandchildren have loads of mates and we are sometimes host to them, the bungalow is packed at times. I like talking with them, as opposed to talking at them. They say that too many older people, in particular my age group, don’t listen to them, but dismiss whatever they say. Common theme seems to be “You won’t think that/vote that way/have that opinion when you’re older.” Well they know that I do listen and they know I respect their opinions, even if I may not sometimes agree with them. Often, points that us oldies fail to realise are: the world is a different place for them, they face a more uncertain future than we did, work and education is very different to what I certainly grew up with. I like to talk to them about my granddad, a founder member of the original Independent Labour party, and my big brother’s struggle as a Labour councillor during the Miner’s Strike, when he liaised with Tory councillors to get things done in the village. I speak about those events in order to make them realise that things can be changed, by them if they wish.

    Something that has to be taken into account, is that there are a lot of young people in Universities and they are, as Dave says, organising. I don’t have a clue how they will vote, as none of the young people I know are in Uni. But they are a mixed bunch: there is a minority who will not vote for the “Big Two” under any circumstances, but have no idea who to vote for. They asked my advice and it was “I will never tell you how to vote, I cannot do that and should not do that. Think for yourselves, study the issues and the people involved, then make a decision. Are any of you not voting?” That produced a storm of answers, all definite that they will vote, with the last one from my No.2 gson, 21 today, mostly quiet but thoughtful: “But you told me granddad that a dog wearing a blue rosette could be elected in (this constituency) – can we change that?”

    “Of course you can,” I replied, ” but only if enough of your generation decide it would be best for you to *vote for a candidate from a party other than the Conservative. Now talk about that amongst yourselves while I put the kettle on”

    Most decided upon the LibDems. I did not comment. I think a quiet revolution is happening amongst the young. Might not be what their parents or grandparents like, but hey, it’s their future. They will have to deal with the results of what the current crop of political screwups have made of things.

    *I emphasised that.

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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    #38379

    PlaneMan
    Moderator
    @planeman
    Forumite Points: 7,016

    I have a real problem with who to vote for.

    I honestly can’t vote for anyone in my constituency with a clear conscience. Democracy is dead around here.

    It’s a Labour ‘safe’ seat. Which I hate, I think all candidates should be concerned about their futures, just like a lot of young workers are.

    I might have to do a ‘protest’ vote, not happy about that at all. I want to vote for someone, not against everyone else!

     

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    #38384

    The Duke
    Moderator
    @sgb101
    Forumite Points: 4,712

    I’m in the same boat as PM, I have no idea who to vote for this time around.

    But I said 2 years ago this is the best shot the lib dems have to gain back seats they lost when they screwed the students over and killed what was the lib dems then. Luckily a good 15 years or so has past since then (christ where does the time go), so I doubt the lib dems are still the bastards on thd bock no more for students.

    They could make great stride in the next elections.

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    #38390

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 8,707

    It was interesting that the comment was made that the only winners of last night’s debate were the audience. Their homing in on ‘How on earth can we trust you’ and his response of ‘Well look at my track record’ brought howls of derision. Corbyn equally well failed to give a good record of how the country will pay for all his grandiose schemes and their viability.

    Frankly I trust Boris as far as I can dribble, he does not even rate a good hack! Equally Corbyn is too wedded to the Socialist party of the 1950s. It looks like it will have to be a Lib Dem vote for me; at least their policies are nowhere near as loony as they have been in the past.

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    #38392

    Dave Rice
    Moderator
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 4,183

    I didn’t see the debate last night, thankfully I was enjoying myself at Hawkwind 50th Anniversary Tour (where did that time go)?

    Why did Boris ask Corbyn 9 times about his Brexit views? We all know he won’t answer so what’s the point in 9 times? Surely 3 would have been enough to play to his gallery? Seems like at least 6 missed opportunities to ask something else.

    As for them masquerading to be Fact Check I think that smacks of desperation and Tory Boys thinking they’re such clever fellows. Like getting one past Nanny or some wizard wheeze at Prep. All the dirty tricks seem to be coming from the right.

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    #38393

    keith with the teef
    Participant
    @thinktank
    Forumite Points: 2,217

    Its brobabley fair to say that government only became important at world war one for people. They bin stringing us along oversince the great wars. And we get taxed around 50%. You may think the most expensive thing you buy is a house. But no, its contributing to the state and we have Boris and Jez to choose from.

    Seems a bit odd to me.

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    #38396

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,729

    How many more carrots are we going to be offered? Now Boris is offering cuts to National Insurance contributions (for some). LibDems’ carrot is a £50billion ‘benefit’ from another referendum and a vote to remain in the EU. Labour has so many carrots on offer that the donkeys are salivating.

    Where will all this money come from? Your guess is as good as theirs!

    Keith, WWI and WWII caused the eventual bankruptcy of this country. The Second World War was of course  just a continuation of the First, which was brought about by the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Interconnected treaties and jingoistic patriotism meant that one after another European nations became involved. One result was the balkanisation of Europe and the division of  the Middle East along artificial borders. Another was the descent into poverty of Germany, caused by the excessive reparations demanded by France and to a lesser extent, Britain. That led to the rise of Hitler, German rearmament and WWII. Trouble in the Balkans and the Middle East from 1945 to the present, can be traced back directly to WWI.

    Those are the causes of more and higher taxation, to pay for a humongous National Debt and wars since the end of the British Empire, in which we should not have been involved. Neither should we have been involved in WWI. Just consider for a moment what the state of the world would be, if in 1914 the then most powerful nation (GB) had remained neutral.

    *No WWII.

    *No lost British generation: almost 1 million service personnel and 886,000 civilians died in both Wars. The Empire would not have survived anyway, IMO. The Commonwealth may have been created in some form, but Empire and Dominion citizens would not have felt obliged to go to war alongside Britain. Many of them were already struggling for independence well before 1914.

    *A healthy labour market, created by British industry booming to feed markets devastated by war. Very little immigration from the Empire or a hypothetical Commonwealth.

    *If Pearl Harbour actually happened during these hypothetical events, remember that at the time, America was isolationist and largely anti-British. We may not have gone to war with Japan, unless Japan attacked our Empire possessions. If that happened, we would have gone to war with Japan and America would have a powerful ally with just one theatre of war to fight. The Japanese would surely have reconsidered a war against the world’s two most powerful nations.

    *Britain could have been picking up the pieces of a broken Europe. It is not inconceivable that Britain could have considered the creation of some form of a United Europe, under British leadership, with the HQ in Britain.

    Just chucking it all out there: make up your own “What If’s”to match.

     

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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    #38417

    keith with the teef
    Participant
    @thinktank
    Forumite Points: 2,217

    As I understand we only just finnished paying off WW1 a few years ago.

    Seems taxation has been around for a very long time indeed. Longer than any dynasty and for what? To pay for war?

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    #38420

    The Duke
    Moderator
    @sgb101
    Forumite Points: 4,712

    In a nut shell, when you boil it down its To pay to for the right to live inside your borders. Well the borders drew around you.

    That’s why I’m not so patriotic, it’s a huge pr stunt to make the plebs (us) want to toe the line and when needed go and protect said borders. Though now we don’t even do that, it’s to go and mess about in someone’s else’s imaginary lines, because then have something we need.

    Rub the lines and and work together as one people. That’s what’s eventually needed.

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    #38421

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 8,707

    Bertie’s (King Edward VII) Parisian whoring had a LOT to do with 1903 Royal pressure on the Government to enter into an Entente Cordiale without which we would probably have been more sympathetic to the German/Russian position and never got into the situation where Helmuth von Moltke could precipitate the whole bloody mess by implementing the Schlieffen Plan. Following the war the French greed for reparations led almost inevitably to rampant German nationalism and all the evils that caused.

    So if you want to find a ‘root’ cause for both World Wars blame it on Bertie’s zipper problem!

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    #38441

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,729

    I have a story about the second King Edward, Ed (let’s not get confused with too many Ed’s, lol.)

    When the abdicating, Nazi-friendly  KE VIII was merely the Prince of Wales, he had a similar zipper problem, although I believe Bertie,  KE VII, would have used buttons to retain his tackle, as the zipper did not actually make it to trousers until 1937:    https://tinyurl.com/yy7g4wcp

    After retirement on health grounds from Legal Services of a County Council, I was about to begin work as a designer/printer. Having had several stories and some poetry published, I was telephoned by a solicitor with a proposition to write the biography of his lady client. I agreed to meet at the solicitor’s home, a location which alerted me: why not his office? I agreed, took his name and phoned a very good friend from Legal Services, to give me information about this guy. It cost me a meal and a few bevvies, but I found out that the ‘solicitor’ had been disbarred a few months previously.

    The client was an elderly lady, obviously a beauty in her youth. She informed me that she was the illegitimate daughter of KE VIII after a liaison with her mother in KE’s younger, pre-sovereign days. I was asked to write the story after she gave me several thick folders of mixed handwritten and typed documents, to read. I gave them back without opening the folders and asked the solicitor why we were meeting in his house and not his office. He blustered a bit and I told him that I knew  the reason why and that he was taking money under false pretences. Then I told the lady the truth about him. She asked me to take her home, read the folder and give my opinion. I gave it a week of close scrutiny and it did appear that she may have a case, but asked what she hoped to gain by exposing the story. She was looking for big bucks from the Royals, of course. She wanted the story published in order to pressure the Royals into comparing their DNA with hers.

    I gave her the truth: that nothing would be accomplished by this, that the Royals would never submit to a DNA comparison, the science then was in its infancy anyway. That her own DNA sample and blood sample would probably ‘disappear’. That if by some mischance it was discovered that she was indeed the daughter of a King, her life would never be the same; she would be hounded by the media, would expect to tell her story to a media outlet and would find that the story was prevented from publication. “Can you write this, are you even capable of writing it?” She asked.

    “Yes”, I replied, ” but I am not going to do that. You have been royally ripped off in more than one way and that ‘solicitor’ cannot legally use any record of this. You need to consign this to history and carry on with your life. And I suggest you report the so-called solicitor to the police, especially if you gave him any money.”

    A very long story, but the result was, I hope, that she gave up the struggle. Certainly I never heard from her, nor any mention of the story, again. From what I read of the folder, with names, dates, people and scenarios I checked to the best of my ability, she appeared to have a very good case. Proving it was, IMO, not possible. I had a great deal of sympathy for the lady, but I believed then and I believe now that I advised her correctly.

    Today, as Prince Andrew is discovering daily, would have perhaps been different. Until a consideration of the time since the ‘events’. That lady was perhaps 20+ years older than me then, so would be long passed away. I find it so sad that she allowed her mother’s claims about her parenthood to obsess her for life.

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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    #38459

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 8,707

    Like many young women, my mother was ‘in service’ as a cook at a large country house in the inter-wars era. She had many a tall tale about the antics of Prince ‘One Ball’ Edward and his incessant tours of country estates. It was probably Edward’s lack of tackle that probably put him on such good terms with the equally short-changed Hitler!

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    #38467

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,729

    That cropped up in the documents I read, Ed. Probably a case of “misery loves company” for Adolf and the one-time King.

    The history of my family, going back through my grandfather to Wales, is one of Socialism and republican, anti-monarchist sentiment. The Socialism I left behind as irrelevant today, but I still hold the view that a sovereign is an even more irrelevant anachronism in the 21st century. That is one reason why I seriously considered writing the story, before realising that it would have achieved nothing but pain and possible ridicule, for all concerned.

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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    #38542

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 8,707

    Well at least the Beeb cannot be accused of Anti-Conservative bias – they edited out Johnson’s roast by the audience during question time! link

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    #38572

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,729

    Yes, but should we vote for someone with such obvious Anger Management issues? –

    A word from the Question Time Producers: –

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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    #38575

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 8,707

    Johnson obviously spends his political revision time looking at movies of the great demagogues – your pic fairly obviously emulates some of the speeches by Third Reich demagogues. However I will not tar him with just that brush as it is known that he copies many Churchillian expressions too. Even the mannerisms of General Juan Peron seems to be copied – smiley face, open hands good, ranty face and clenched fists bad. He wisely steers clear of the real extremists (but great crowd stirrers) such as Pol Pot.

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    #38578

    PlaneMan
    Moderator
    @planeman
    Forumite Points: 7,016

    I had my postal vote today.

    Completed and returned.

    Still not happy about the choice I made but it had to be done.

    No real option apart from a vote for an alleged good bloke.
    <p style=”text-align: right;”></p>

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    #38580

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,729

    Nolan, a vote for the candidate as a person, judged by your own opinion of their suitability to represent you, is the best way to vote IMHO. Voting for a candidate because of the political party they represent, is wrong in my view. I always vote for the person I think best represents the MP I want to represent me.

    Too many people “have always voted ………. ” (insert Party name) -” and so did my dad/granddad/etc, etc….”

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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