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Off with his head!

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This topic contains 237 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Ed P 13 hours, 6 minutes ago.

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  • #36937

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps

    Supreme Court: Suspending Parliament was unlawful, judges rule.

    Irrespective of Brexit I am extremely glad to see this ruling. Ever since TBLiar took us into an illegal war with the threat of proroguing in the background  I have been very concerned about our system of elected sometimes unelected temporary dictatorship. We needed some checks and balances against a deluded leader, and now we have a precedent.

    The topic header was of course tongue in cheek, what sanction if any there is for misleading the monarch remains to be seen, but the mendacious BoJo would be well advised to avoid Scotland for a while as he has been in contempt of their court for over a week!

Viewing 20 replies - 121 through 140 (of 237 total)
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  • #37513

    The VFM Addict
    Participant
    @thevfmaddict
    Forumite Points: 1,849

    Hold on there……….Ed and Dave.  I won’t be trying to convince anyone that this is a good deal.    Because it isn’t.

    After BoJo once saying you couldn’t polish a t*rd that is exactly what he has done.     Too busy at the mo’ to go into it but it is in most ways every bit as bad as May’s deal being 95% that deal anyway.    Yes he’s got the b’stop removed but only by cutting N.I. adrift.   If he gets it through on Saturday it will be by short-timing those who have not yet read it in full.    If the Letwin amendment passes, which it probably will, that will slow progress and as MP’s read it fully they will never subsequently pass it into law.   Remember – Saturday’s vote is only of import re the Benn Bill nothing more.     It will be close on Saturday but if I had to call it I’d say it won’t even pass then.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________

    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #37515

    Dave Rice
    Moderator
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 3,850

    I didn’t think you thought it was any good. He’s clearly banking on giving MPs as little time to scrutinise things as possible. I’m not actually sure he’s that bothered if he wins or loses, for Project Boris getting the deal is good enough to fight a GE on especially against Corbyn.

    But like laying in front of the bulldozers, his words at the DUP conference about never putting a border in the Irish Sea have proved to be yet another lie jus to get him a bit further down the road. Why does anyone trust him? I just can’t fathom it.

    I’m afraid the public are going to wake up to the detail when it’s far too late because Boris will do what’s good for Boris and that’s it.

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    #37519

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 7,622

    Ditto Dave’s comment but I’d add that I think that the negotiating team have found out that far from caving in over Ulster the EU have stuck to their guns. Instead it is the Mendacious One who has once again demonstrated his duplicity and carved a border in the Irish Sea. This could come home to haunt us all during the next two+ years.

    As everyone should know, even if Boris gets his deal Brexit continues on for at least two years while we sort out our relationships with the EU. Put differently, the different parts of the UK do not leave the EU for at least two years. I honestly believe that during this period you are going to get both Scotland and Wales demanding the same deal as Ulster and during these two+ years it would still be quite practicable to implement.

    As I said before Brexit ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

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    #37532

    The VFM Addict
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    @thevfmaddict
    Forumite Points: 1,849

    Today hinges not on the main vote but on the Letwin amendment.   If Letwin passes it is likely BoJo will pull the main vote and it won’t happen.

     

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    Here's hoping the Mad Tangerine of the West and the Mad Monk of the East stay friends or we're all in trouble

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    #37534

    Dave Rice
    Moderator
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 3,850

    I think his goal was to get rid of the word backstop and change the future declaration to a harder Brexit. The question was what was required to do that? I think that may have been the topic of conversation with Veradker, just give me that what is the cost? Unless it’s outrageous I’ll pay it.

    So back to the plan originally put to TM as that had been thought out already, it was nothing new just reheat it. The DUP had to go under the bus but apart from them NI would be reasonably happy. Another bribe wouldn’t have gone down well with the Tories never mind the public or the Good Friday agreement.

    The future declaration? Who cares, there’s a lot can happen just change it to suit. Cost to Boris is the paying of bills we’d have to anyway and an empty promise on alignment.

    I’m sure there’s plenty more devils in the detail but this is all about getting past Oct 31st with as much face as possible to bolster Boris’s GE chances. All the Brexit party can do is complain the WA is a bad deal which makes them look like the other opposition, just trying to stop Brexit to get their own way. I see they’re keeping Farage away from the cameras, it’s all Tice. But he’s tainted with Aaron Banks associations. I don’t think they dare let Ann Widdicombe lose on the media and the rest have little experience.

    God knows what today will bring.

    EDIT – well that’s it. More delay to scrutinise the deal and the DUP are clearly going to throw spanners in the works. I see he’s still sticking with the bravado of legally ignoring the Benn Act. I think he used the word “I” though. If someone else sent it would anyone really care as long as it was still valid?

    Perhaps the MPs would like to do what people with real jobs and a tight deadline have to do, work all hours until it’s done.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by Dave Rice.
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    #37537

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 7,622

    Supposedly a large part of the delay is to sort out enabling legislation such as the clause VFM highlighted, but it also demonstrated that the majority quite correctly do not trust Boris an inch.

    If anyone listened to the commentary around the debate, part of that picked on a quote made by a Hard Brexiteer that irrespective of Boris’s deal they would just waste two years and come out with their desired Hard Brexit at the end of that time. It seems to me that such people are just CIA or Russian paid terrorists hell bent on destroying the UK’s manufacturing and financial industries. Is it any wonder that people do not trust them?

     

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    #37541

    JayCeeDee
    Participant
    @jayceedee
    Forumite Points: 3,792

    Perhaps the MPs would like to do what people with real jobs and a tight deadline have to do, work all hours until it’s done.

    I said that back when they broke for the summer recess and all went off on holiday ( for how many weeks?? ) . Keeping them at it would have focused minds on truly resolving it. Then they could get back to what was obviously more important to them!!.

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    #37542

    Wheels-Of-Fire
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    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 3,447

    All it proved to me was that the people who don’t wan’t to leave under any circumstance still think the same. They are pinning there hopes on a new referendum with a 3 way question to split the leave vote. They think if they can win that they can pretend the first vote never happened.

    I think they can think again.

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    #37543

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 3,447

    Anyway it won’t do Borris’s popularity any harm.

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    #37544

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 7,622

    IF Boris can convince MPs that his deal+amendments is sound it is still theoretically possible to have it passed by 31October (assuming a compliant House of Lords). If it survives that process then it deserves to pass because I think the EU are thoroughly fed up with the UK.

    I do however continue to think that any deal that carves off the island of Ireland from the rest of the UK sets a very dangerous precedent for both the Welsh and Scots. In that situation you can expect nationalism to rear its ugly head and without care it could erupt into violence as that idiot Johnson basically said in the House today that ‘we are only pandering to Ulster because of its violent past’.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by Ed P.
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    #37548

    Alan Wood
    Participant
    @alanrwood
    Forumite Points: 862

    All it proved to me was that the people who don’t wan’t to leave under any circumstance still think the same. 

     

    To be fair that also applies to the Leavers.

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    #37562

    Bob Williams
    Participant
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 5,284

    All it proved to me was that the people who don’t wan’t to leave under any circumstance still think the same. To be fair that also applies to the Leavers.

    … that also applies to the Leavers, who don’t want to remain under any circumstances. ”  Fixed that for you, Alan!😎😋

    If it’s the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?

    What’s right is what’s left if you do everything else wrong.

    If women ran the world we wouldn’t have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days.
    --- Robin Williams

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    #37565

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 3,447

    It did not apply to most of the ERG or the MP’s who lost the whip over the Benn act, they voted for a vote on a deal but we got Remoaned again anyway

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    #37566

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 3,447

    At the moment the remainers don’t support leaving with no deal and they don’t support a vote on the deal that is on the table, they also don’t support an election because they get the feeling they would lose. At the moment they support a rerun of the referendum but with a third option of leave with a deal on the paper so they can split the leave vote. With todays polls showing that 63% of people support leaving with Borris’s new deal that could win outright so im not sure how long they will support that option either.

    What next ?

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    #37571

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 7,622

    We jail Boris in the Clock Tower of the Palace of Westminster for his contempt!

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    #37572

    Wheels-Of-Fire
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    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 3,447

    That would be interesting at least. I wonder how many cabinet ministers you could fit in there and could they squeeze in a table as well 😂

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    #37575

    Dave Rice
    Moderator
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 3,850

    Remember there was no vote on the deal yesterday. It wasn’t chucked out neither was the leave date amended in any way.

    This is still to stop No Deal. The deal could have been passed yesterday but we wouldn’t be out until all the legislation is passes. Oh dear! I don’t like that bit any more. Or keep talking, oh no! the 31st of October just went past. That’s what the Letwin amendment was about because nobody trusts Boris.

    Letwin has said he will vote for it, but he won’t be railroaded into it nor watch the clock tick away. If they get their fingers out it can be done, if the maths is right, which would always have been the case Letwin or not.

    If it’s all Remainers how do you account for the DUP then? Clearly they’re aren’t and I suspect after some inspection of the detail a few more Leavers will spot they’ve been thrown under the bus too. Workers rights may well be one area the Labour Leavers look at carefully especially given the current makeup of senior ministers previous thoughts on the matter.

    How many times has Boris said the letter wouldn’t be sent? Probably never if you inspect his weasel words carefully but we all know the intent was to intimate he had a way out which he didn’t. Not signing it is the attitude of a 4 year old. Technically he’s probably broken the law sending the second letter and the judges will probably be dragged back into this. And that will be the fault of Boris, not the judiciary. You don’t blame the magistrate when someone is caught speeding.

    I cannot understand how you can trust this man. Is it the belief is we know he’s a liar but he won’t be throwing us under a bus, right up until he does to suit his own ambitions?

    Brexiteers could have had Brexit years ago had it been done sensibly and with consensus but it wasn’t. Nearly half of the country were just told to shut up like some losing football crowd. Unsurprisingly that didn’t go down well and the more idiots like Franscois were paraded as the poster boys of Leave the worse it got. Bribing the DUP when we were told they was no money left for more worthy causes was the last straw.

    As much as I don’t want another Referendum, and believe me I don’t, it may be the only way to solve this. The maths of Parliament mean that relatively small groups can hold the process hostage and I don’t see a GE solving that. At least then if it is Leave we can have a GE and the parties decide what flavour of Leave they will stand on.

    Half of the country may well be pissed off but half are anyway. It takes away all the arguments over people didn’t know what they were voting for. Given the Brexit fatigue, win or lose the public as a body will say that’s it, now just get on with it and the extremists of either side can just shut up.

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    #37581

    Ed P
    Participant
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 7,622

    The evil foreign Boris clown once more spurns the law in order to frustrate British democracy.  In doing so he has managed to turn the UK Parliament into something from a Ruritanian farce.

    I’m now waiting for a beautiful Princess to come along and change the wizened Corbyn toad into a different ‘Andy Burnham’-like heroic figure who will come to our rescue. I just hope that this all happens before the UK pantomime season starts, and before the foreign audience has collapsed into uncontrollable laughter!

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    #37585

    Wheels-Of-Fire
    Participant
    @grahamdearsley
    Forumite Points: 3,447

    The judges are actually becoming concerned about being dragged into parliamentry buisness. A bunch of remoaners went to the Scottish high court (they have had success there before) yesterday to try and get Borris’s deal declared illegal but were basically told to bugger off.

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    #37587

    Dave Rice
    Moderator
    @ricedg
    Forumite Points: 3,850

    They had a weak case and rightfully failed. That it concerned Parliamentary business wasn’t the issue, that has already been thrashed out. MPs, Prime Ministers and Government are bound by the laws Parliament creates, how could it be else? A PM that doesn’t bow to the Courts is a Dictator, simple as that. That we have a PM prepared to go down that road is chilling.

    In this case Boris told the Court he would do something and then did something different. That is potentially contempt of court which is very serious. It’s no surprise that someone will probably ask for the Court’s opinion on that, but they will have to be asked, they won’t just come out with it.

    If it was Corbyn up to these tricks I expect you would be incandescent with rage. Well if Boris gets away with it, it opens the door to just that. Be careful what you wish for, it may come back to bite you.

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