January 7, 2019 at 7:44 am #29723
It is no wonder that nearly all the old soldiers on this forum suffer from bad backs — the average British infantry pack is 82% of body weight (58Kg), but Army mules are not supposed to carry more than 25% of their body weight.(See Project Payne)
Because US soldiers are profligate in both ammunition use and technology support their expected load is now 69Kg. The reasons behind this extra carrying load are set out in this interesting Popular Mechanics article: link
January 7, 2019 at 4:17 pm #29726
Yep, webbing and rifel is around 22lb, the burgan starts on in training week one at about 30lb and riseses up to 70lb ish. But once, an mountain leader burgan can tip 150 easy. And all that is a try representation of how heavy they get in operation.
It’s not unheard of for a solder to be caring 140 plus on active service. Problay one of the most famomoise of all load carries is thd 60 miles across the failklands over marshland in bad weather with full kit. And covering in a few days dropping burgans alony the way. Massive respect to them guys, (yes even the paras) and not to the army guards, they realised with in a mile, they couldn’t do it. As I’m sure they could of made thd lads down it, but would of lost many miles after mile, and been in no shape to fight.
One of the commando tests for marines is ony 22lb plus 70lb over 12miles in 4 and a half hours iirc. Remeber they are mostly kids that weigh about 10-12stone. So about 75% of there wight. and the morning after they compete and pass, the endurance which sounds thd easiest test, but if by far the hardest). Accully my minds failing me, it way of been the tarze assalt first. The tests always went from a Friday, to Monday, on a dat. And the laid carry was in sure a Saturday. (long time ago now)
However this is a light load to what we had been using in training, and a 10 mile load carry wasn’t that rare of a thing to do in trianing. So it was just the speed of it what hurt. (sespecally for us short legged guys).
Though I’d always (back then), of taken a load carry over a speed March. I’ve said this before speed marches I hated, Especally if a tall lad was front left position, and he opens his legs out. It would kill me. I suppose when a short guy was dictating pace, the tall guy felt like they was doing twice as many steps to cover the same ground.
But I do recall bob saying he had no issues speed marching and he is shot arse like me. (5,8).
Back on subject. There is no way any soldier uk or us, is caring zonly 70lb in total. Maybe that is rifal webing and partol/day sack, (fighting order) when you have drop for burgan off.
I recall being I Norway with the MLs (just with them, not part of them) and asking why non an issue burgans, they say they had always been allowed to use there own better quality, as the marine issue ones failed fast, (with in hours).they talked about a short time in late 80s early 90s, when orders came down that all MLs must use issue burgans. First excersice out as the begans was drobeed by rope of the belos the burgans torn and expladed the contents evewher. In minus 20 plus, that end of excersice.
They never improved the burgans, they just re rescinded the order, letting them use their own kit agsin.
Talking all things military did you see that trump said he was moving troops out or sryisa and half out of afghan? I know the half exited afghan in just over a week of his tweet (lol tweet) .
Yesterday the 9/11 blackmail docs come across my radar, it got me thinking or wondering did the government have some knowalge that these docs was coming or Atleast the theat of what could be in them, be enough to scare the US give into bringing alot of troops stateside fast. Its going to be interesting few weeks non the less.
If it wad an inside job, or if they let it happen, I can’t see them (whomever them would be) ever letting out such a secret. As it would finish America, and crash global economies.00January 7, 2019 at 5:57 pm #29728
DrezhaParticipant@drezhaForumite Points: 673
Atleast the theat of what could be in them, be enough to scare the US give into bringing alot of troops stateside fast. Its going to be interesting few weeks non the less. If it wad an inside job, or if they let it happen, I can’t see them (whomever them would be) ever letting out such a secret. As it would finish America, and crash global economies.
He could be preparing to invade Mexico to get the money to build the wall. 😉
There’s certainly a growing recognition about carry weight. For cadets (and the DofE award), we have to careful to let cadets only carry 1/3 of their body weight. Unfortunately, some squadron have old equipment that weighs a lot, that even with the bare minimum for a 2 day expedition, some 13 year old cadets are loaded with probably over 1/3 of their bodyweight! There’s isn’t a huge amount we can do then, other than suggest others help to carry the kit, but then that overloads those…
Light kit is more expensive and the last thing we do is usually give cadets expensive kit cos it gets broken!00January 7, 2019 at 6:27 pm #29731
Yes, militery kit has to be tough, so that makes it heavy. Plus we never got good modern stuff. And we didn’t want it, as it alway broke.
Coming back to weights. On top of what I metionsed. In even 8 man section, one wouidp carry a gpmg (about 30lb), his oppo Thr tri pod about 20lb, anther guy a LAW(94 in my time) which was probably 25lb. And ammos for the gpmg wousl be split between the section. The ones not carry the gpmg or stand (which was a bitch), would have a higher percentage of rounds, to try an more even distribution.
This is why most infentry men are knackered within 5 years. You have a lifetime or more wear and tear, on backs, hips, knees ancles and elbows. Not to mention your reet. But they seem to recover well. I couldn’t tell you how many toe nails I lost, over the years. Pull off your scocks and shack your nails out.
Thr up side to thst is, you get to do drill in your trainers, when back on bace. Or even get out of it. Hated drill, hours of boredom. So you got to feal all your aches and pains.
Could never of been a guard. Good soilders but I couldn’t do their guards duties. F-that.00January 7, 2019 at 7:49 pm #29740
Ed PParticipant@edpsForumite Points: 2,482
Actually Steve, Project Payne docs says that the average CEFO load is 58Kg = 128 lbs versus an ideal max CEFO load of 25Kg = 55lbs (CEFO = Complete Equipment Fighting Order i.e clothing, body armour, mortar rounds etc – the lot)
00January 7, 2019 at 8:55 pm #29743
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Ed P.
That ties in with my first post saying it’s not unheard of for marines to carry 140lb. I hear in the failklands it was closer to 200. I’m not sure how they did it. As anything over a 100, we’d sit on the floor, put the burgan on, then your oppo pulls you up. Then youd return the favour. Quite often, Especally when tired. You’d both end up on the floor, and have to start again.
Soilders are very anal when it comes to what weighs what. Every oz needs to be justified. Also probably 50 percent or greater, is replaced non issue kit. (or it was), as in thd 90s the kit was light years behind what you coidp get on civvy Street. So when Kosovo was building up, we all went out an raided mullets, blacks and all the local outdoors suplyiers.
And chemist’s. Inrubrpfen and co codamol was like gold. And we’d stock up on sanatery towels and zinkoxide tape.
Basically blow a month’s wages. Just to go and do your job.
Luckimgy even in the 90s, there want much call out side of training exversises to lump such heavy loads that far. The faulkands was an exception to the rule. Mostly your moving with a patrols sack (25lb) , webbing and fifle,(22lb), and plus 3 of the 8 would have a Law, gpmg and tripod. So relative light on your feet.
When you add the burgan, the patrol sack 25lb, is part of the overall burgsn weight and not additionally to it. Your burgan will keep you alive for a week or more (we indifitally) your patrol sack is a 48h survival kit and ammo. Taken out of the burgan, that will be house at a FOB or left at an RV point, to be collected after the patrol or encounter.00
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