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Read First if flying on a Boeing 737 Max–or maybe not!

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  • #28046
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps

    According to this Gizmodo report the Boeing 737 Max can abruptly dive ‘by mistake’! This may well have caused the Lion Air crash off Indonesia in which everyone died.

    I bet if were an Airbus the CAA would immediately ground all such planes until it the fault was proven to be rectified.

Viewing 15 replies - 101 through 115 (of 115 total)
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  • #39608
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    Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 13,458

    Iran adopts a squirming, mealy-mouthed ‘explanation’ but still manages to blame the “flying posture and altitude of an enemy target” meaning that it was partly the flight crew’s fault I suppose, for flying a civil airliner full of civilians including their own countrymen, as if it was on an attack run.

    Then Iran states that a no-fly request had been made and rejected, blaming the Ukrainians.

    Finally it was again the US bogeyman :  “Human error at a time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to [this] disaster ” according to the Foreign Minister. Beeb report:

    http://tinyurl.com/ua7u7us

    It wasn’t us wot did it Boss, it was several others.

    OK then, it was us, but we are only partly to blame. Trump must be laughing his ass off.

     

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

    #39614
    Participant
    Richard
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 6,517

    Bob, having lived and worked out there I can understand something of what very likely went on. Different silos exist with few if any channels of communication directly between them. There is also a lot of ‘face’ to protect.  No one would trust the lot next door. I have just dug out this nugget, quote, ‘Gen Hajizadeh also said the aircraft was shot down by a short-range missile that exploded next to it. He said he informed the authorities about what had happened on Wednesday, days before Iran publicly admitted its involvement.’

    I have had to change my draft after find his revelation but feel that the next part still stands as likely.

    Even there the sticky, smelly brown stuff, does not easily travel upwards or across. Often the only way that the silos exchange information is after it reached the top and only then can it cross the barriers. Usually after it has been filtered and cleansed. Now it has hit the fan. Some senior ranks of what passes for the government are said to be livid as are large numbers of the general populace. Blaming the probably poorly trained, weakly supervised, relatively trigger-happy moron who fired the missile is only part of the problem. While some passengers and crew probably did know, however briefly what hit them it is only today that some relatively senior government members possibly found the lurid truth. This was days after those outside and some inside already had a fair idea of the hideous truth. No wonder they are writhing about like fish on a line. They are the fish, and they are on a very uncomfortable line. Somehow they have to convince the populace they are not running a cowboy shambles. Duck shoving will be their first instinct.

    #39875
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    This week’s worrying Boeing news – more of the same but this time it is the revamped 777 the Boeing 777X which may share some of the woes of the Max. link

    #39879
    Participant
    Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 13,458

    And now Airbus Industries is laughing its collective ass off.

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

    #39889
    Participant
    Richard
    @sawboman
    Forumite Points: 6,517

    Bob, I must update an earlier statement you made about car servicing. Be cautious about the re-purposed motorways with no hard shoulder. If your vehicle  breaks down or moves slowly on an intelligent motorway you die there just like on a 727 MAX. Or as it now appears almost any Boeing.

    #39893
    Participant
    Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 13,458

    Only rarely do I get to a Motorway Richard, Lincolnshire has very few and none in my neck the woods. I love my country roads, until the grockles come in numbers.

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

    #40482
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    The system is a bit unstable today, my previous post disappeared into thin air so I’ll abbreviate this:

    More Boeing screwups reported. The Starliner tests had more things wrong with it than first revealed. Not only did the spacecraft aim for the wrong orbit, had it remained on course it would have been shot down by its own booster rocket!

    According to Boeing communications problems with the craft were not due to badly positioned antennae but too much terrestial mobile phone yakking.

    Ars link

    #40800
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    Another week goes by, another Boeing disaster story. This one however veers on the criminal – metallic debris in the fuel tanks of brand-new Boeing Max planes. BBC link.

    That finding will probably result in a total strip-down of Airforce One as the US are totally paranoid about the safety of the POTUS plane.

    #41486
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    In this age of totally empty planes flying around, it is probably of only passing interest that the US Government have published their preliminary findings on the causes of the crashes of the flying deathtrap called the Boeing 737 Max. The report raises major question marks in my mind about the safety of ANY civil plane manufactured by Boeing.

    Report Pdf

    Even though the report is at a preliminary stage, I would be shocked if senior management at Boeing are not charged with criminal proceedings – maybe even manslaughter. Much of the report just confirms the early findings of investigative journalism – the Management of Boeing set an impossibly short development timetable and rode roughshod over any and all safety concerns. Management at Boeing and put their profits before safety.

    The senior management of the FAA do not come out squeaky-clean either. There seemed to be an old-boys club between senior managers in Boeing and the FAA that enabled Boeing to silence any concerns raised by low-level FAA employees.

    I can see civil case lawyers licking their greedy chops. I’d be surprised if each passenger’s next of kin do not come out with seven or eight figure court awards. Maybe triple damages will seem a small multiplier when compensation claims come to trial.

    #41542
    Participant
    Bob Williams
    @bullstuff2
    Forumite Points: 13,458

    In the latest issue of Flypast magazine, there is a feature on the aircraft that really made Boeing’s name: the first truly high altitude, pressurised airliner. This was Boeing 307 Stratoliner, first in service with Pan American Airways and Transcontinental & Western (now TWA). Based on the YB-17, which became the B-17 Flying Fortress, it was initially a world beater, but the outbreak of WWII cut off access to lucrative European routes and both airlines were restricted by this. When the USA joined the war, the US government cancelled the programme and the military took over all the airliners as Military Transports. Most were used in transatlantic routes, Churchill travelling to and from various theatres and the USA in one example.

    https://tinyurl.com/wfrmftz

    That was of course in the days when Boeing bean counters actually listened to their engineers and acted upon their advice.

    Also in the same issue is an extract from a video about Sir Frank Whittle and his struggle to bring the attention of Top Brass and politicians to his invention of the Gas turbine and its application in military aircraft. His first idea came about in 1928, but not until May 1941 did the prototype take to the air. Then the RAF Head Shed neglected to make Sir Frank’s 1930 patent Secret, an incredibly stupid oversight which allowed several other nations to access the plans and ideas. Including Nazi Germany. Hans von Ohain was the Heinkel designer of the engine in the Heinkel 178, the world’s first jet aircraft to fly.This man always claimed to be the “co-inventor” with Sir Frank, of the jet engine, which is of course, absolute nonsense. The difference between Sir Frank’s efforts and von Ohain’s, is that the Whittle design, the Gloster E28, received investment from Sir Frank’s friend Rolf Williams (yay! go Williamses!) and a merchant bank, but absolutely nothing from the government and British industrialists.

    Had sufficient investment, belief and support been received in the 1930’s, plus a Secret Patent fixed, the RAF may well have had a weapon in the skies that could have knocked down Luftwaffe aircraft in penny numbers, during the Battle of France and the dark days afterwards.

    The story bears comparison with the actions of the Labour government after WWII. The Russians had taken all the wrong steps in trying to invent their own gas turbine engine, as the Yanks and (to a smaller extent) British aviation engineers, had nicked appropriated so much German technical knowledge, experience, aircraft and tooling. Stalin was not at all pleased with his aviation designers and I suspect quite a few were employed further to the East. The Labour government secretly sent a Rolls Royce Nene turbojet engine to the USSR, whereupon the Russian designers immediately used it as a copy for their own engine: rechristened it in Cyrillic and of course, never paid a rouble in Royalties. Those were the actions of a committed bunch of Communist-leaning traitors, IMHO. Something that I suspect would have been applauded by Jeremy Corbyn.

    This supercilious attitude of course remains embedded in certain British management, some upper echelons of the military and government to this day. It echoes down the years.

    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
    I'm out.

    #41546
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    It is obvious that Boeing still puts profits above safety. Despite FAA regulators warning that the wiring bundles on the 737Max are a short circuit and potential fire hazard, Boeing objected to the FAA safety instruction. The FAA have now unusually found some teeth and have instructed Boeing to make changes.

    It should be noted that the Boeing 737 NG has exactly the same safety hazard, So far the fAA have not instructed boeing to ground these planes.

    Link

    #42357
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    Nearly a month without bad Boeing news, but even if few planes are flying, the Boeing ones still have problems. In another three weeks if the maintenance crews on Boeing 787’s have not remembered to reboot the flight control systems they risk the plane falling out of the sky on its next flight!:cry:

    El Reg Link

    #61190
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    Just as the FAA is about to release a litany of fixes for the 737 Maximum Disaster, there is yet another Boeing crash, but this one was at Calicut in India.

    Somehow though I suspect that this one is not entirely down to Boeing. Apparently it was near monsoon rain and a landing on one of the more scary India runways. Perfectly straight in but I’d guess a runway that  slopes at 5% all the way down to the arrivals hall. One of those runways that tighten the sphincter even on a good day when animals are not wandering across it!

    #61993
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    JayCeeDee
    @jayceedee
    Forumite Points: 5,356

    I’ve just seen on CNN a report out by the House Committee has been critical of both Boeing and the FAA. it seems collusion between them and cost cutting exercises by Boeing ( plus intentionally downplaying the of the MCAS problem by Boeing and the need for Simulation Training ) are the main reasons for the two crashes.

    Interesting to see the path things take from here, whether they stay within the two or spread throughout the industry, as/when/if it restarts. The decision in 2012 by the FAA to hand problems and decisions back to the industry to resolve themselves, instead of being overseen by the regulating authority.

    #61999
    Participant
    Ed P
    @edps
    Forumite Points: 16,283

    From my reading it appeared that there was a corrupt relationship between the US Government, FAA and Boeing link. I can only hope that we will in future lean more to using the EU airline safety body and treat the FAA as an untrustworthy expert body.

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